Totally OT Cranes

[T i m]

The cilent minorrityy maybe?

Funnily enough (and in spite of Mary's beliefs) I ask my missus (and /or now daughter) any words I'm not sure on. Probably 75% of the time she can just rattle them off but the rest require flicking through a big book she keeps nearby. I have tried using her book (and similarly spellcheckers) get completely thrown if you don't happen to know what the first few letters of a word should be?

She runs a scout group and guess who has to

Another good point. Some folk seem to think we are all created equal .. and this is obviously not the case (or we could all become English teachers) ;-)

And another point that may be part of my current situation. I;'ve never been a reader of novels and only generally read technical manuals (when I have to). I rarely write (or have written), prefering to use a keyboard (all be it slowly) wherever possible. Therefore since my first exposure to Word Processors I have made use of spell checkers and not had a need to leard stuff myself. Similar to the numbers storded in my mobile phone .. of all the numbers I may ring from time to time I only *know* about 3 by heart. I haven't a clue what my wifes or daughters mobile phone numbers are and like many other folk don't even know my own. Why, because since I have had a phone I have stored my numbers in a book and then my Psion / PC etc.

A young lad I took through one of the modules you need to become a Certified Novell (Netware?) Engineer could remember the product codes for about 20 items of software .. (handy in a pub quiz or if you get caught short and need to install MS Office in a hurry) ;-)

Sri to hear that Dave. As I mentioned before, we all have different priorities in life .. I favoured the more practical subjects in school (and have earnt a living as a support engineer for the last 30 years) never wanted to get into management .. never had an interest in paper .. ;-)

Same here .. and possibly why we may 'suffer' (BECAUSE WE DON'T DO IT FOR FUN MARY ) simmilar things (except I can't remember numbers either) ;-( Now I will take most things apart and as far as I am concerened, they nearly put themselves baxk together again ... to me obvious, to the missus 'no chance'.

When the revolution comes and Mary is making my clothes and I'm making her carts .. all I'll need is a sketch of what she wants and I'm away (I rarely 'read' the instructions) ;-)

Thanks .. although I'm not sure I have it ...?

Example .. if I'm busy typing away then look up I often see something completely different to what was going on in my head at the time? Completely missed words, words where all the letters are substituted for a ones near but not right (but know how to spell)? Sometimes I try to write something down, something important maybe but actually get a bit of it wrong?

Sometimes I have misdialled the same number I'm reading from a bit of paper 3 or 4 times?

Am I dyslexic /// disslex// (you know) ;-)

My memory is similar (in general) .. go somewhere specifically to take something but leave it at home?

I got in with the Chineese the other night and the missus asked me where our daughter was .. "the one you should have picked up from your Mums and brought home!" (she then went on about "I only ask you to do two things ... " (luckily we have a microwave) ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

[John Rumm]

Not wishing to put words in Tim's mouth, but I think he was suggesting that for some of us, the difficulty we face producing 100% accurately spelled text in all situations will be comparable to the difficulty said ditch digger would have remaining perspiration and odour free.

Just a stab in the dark here, but do you put on make-up every time you go out? Could another woman not turn round and claim that "She speaks real fancy, but can't be bothered to take care of her appearance". Could it be just a case of differing priorities?

Not "necessary" would imply that there was choice involved. If you have proofread to the best of your ability and checked with the available tools and there are still errors, how do you suggest one eliminates them?

(in fact treat that as a rhetorical question - the answer obviously being "post to usenet and some spelling moderator will help you out"!)

Not really. Also depending on the style of your errors, some are very much better than others. The MS ones I find pretty poor as it happens with my errors, the Mozilla one is worse still. The best ones (for me) are based on the "Linguibase" by Proximity Technologies which seems to have an almost clairvoyant ability to extract what I mean from the nonsense I type ;-), but alas that does not seem to be that popular these days....

[T i m]

Xakly ;-)

The thing is (and I'm not trying to defend the above atrocity Bob) this newsgroup / internet malarky is devoid of emotion / feeling and sometimes one (I?) *try* to empart some of that feeling by the 'misuse' of said?

Ok, if I stopped and though about the 'replaced / substituted' letters everytime (or more often proof read all I typed) I might get nearer the mark but if *I* did that, any 'flow' (FWIW) may be lost ..?

Anyway, enough of this .. I'm gonna blow the crap out of some mates on the net with a quick game of Pariah ..

All the best ..

T i m

[T i m]

As you have quoted me Mike I will add something if I may. I took what you said as it was meant (and referenced that you said 'sorry' if it offended). It was only when Rick responded did I feel / share some of his frustration.

Indeed .. and if you don't say anything you are less likely to say something wrong (and that would be no good here!). However of all things that may upset picking on what is likely to be a spelling mistake (I wouldn't be sure how to spell 'Einstien' ..(was I close?)) as opposed to a 'tyop'?

Difficult call I know but it's like asking a fat girl if she's pregnant ...? ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

[Chip]

On 28 Jun 2005 23:01:55 GMT,it is alleged that "Bob Eager" spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

Spellcheckers may not, but in my experience, Usenet _always_ does.

[John Rumm]

The currently accepted stats (BDA et al) would suggest 1 in 10 people mildly affected, and 1 in 30 with serious problems.

Possibly - what you describe would not be inconsistent with some types (there are different types).

Aside from being fairly bright in general, often dyslexics will have skewed abilities. So while their lexical abilities may be low (often two of the three of reading, writing, spelling suffering badly), they will have unnaturally strong abilities in other areas (problem solving, visual-spatial awareness, three dimensional or pictorial thinking). Oddly they will also often have very strong spoken language skills.

[T i m]

I think Mary was playing but your reply was exactly what I was trying to say (im my own misspelled and badly punctuated way) ;-)

The best ones (for me)

Brilliant observation John!

I'm not sure this fits your format but I used to used Netscape Messenger for my mail and that seemed to do as you described (turn my gibberish into real words!). I'm currently using Mozilla Thunderbird and the spell checker in that seems to give up much too easily? I find myself trying different combinations of a word before it will even give me a break and suggest something for me to work from!

Thanks for the laugh though ..

All the best ..

T i m

[T i m]

Cheers Chip .

T i m

[T i m]

Hmm, without trying to sound like I am blowing my own trumpet that does seem to fit?

I have been an electronics / electromechanical / chemical / comms / LAN / WAN / PC support engineer for most of my working life (problem solving)?

I have a good sense of direction (rarely get lost in buildings) have competitivly raced RC boats / cars (still do) and can 'picture' things before I put pen to paper (and the finished result is more often than not exactly what I had in my head)? You have to have eyes everywhere to ride a cycle / motorbike these days?

6 years IT training (MCT, CNI, A+CT) .. I didn't get too many complaints .. but then I used pictures rather than words on the white board! (spoken word)? ;-)

Maybe there *is* a sort of 'balance' with this then John?

All the best and thanks for the feedback ;-)

T i m

[John Rumm]

Now that is something I would not mind if MS "integrated" into the OS. A way of selecting a spell checking plugin that could then be called up in any textual entry field. Each time sharing the same custom spelling dictionary.

[John Rumm]

You may also: find it easy to grasp complex concepts; find it easy to remember lots of non structured technical "stuff" that many would find difficult (ASCII code, resistor colour code etc); be good at lateral thinking. Find it difficult to take notes and think at the same time; find it difficult to read your own writing; find the writing process physically difficult or painful. Hence in many cases relying on memory rather than writing stuff down.

Many dyslexics also report "knowing" from an early age that they were in some way different to their peers, even though they could probably not put a finger on why.

Dyslexics tend to make very good architects, quite often they are able to maintain many aspects of three dimensional problems in the head all at once...

I had a quick web search and found this:

sure how much you can learn from it (although I am around the 8 to 9 "yes" answers level if I answer for me now, although interestingly if I think back to when I was in my early teens the score would have been more like 15 or 16!)

There are also strong hereditary links, while not passing directly from one generation to the next, it is not uncommon to find several instances of it dotted about a family. It affects ten times as many boys as girls.

[T i m]

Hmmm, 'she' often says it's allright for you,, you absorb information easily .. how do you remember all that". This would be when I have say watched a TV documentary about something and tell her all about the key points some time later?

find it easy to

Not sure about the ASCII code (I have printed that on a handy sheet) but resistor colour code .. Bk, Bn, Rd, O, Y, Gn, Bl, V, Gy, W ;-)

; be good at lateral

Sometimes .. ;-)

Find it difficult to take notes and think at the same time;

Yep, so generally don't bother, prefering to just 'listen' and absorb?

Often ;-(

find the writing process

Yep, hence why I'd rather pop stuff into notepad rather than writing it down.

Hence in many cases relying on memory

Well I have to write some stuff down .. shopping lists for example .. and if I don't I will normally forset *something* ;-(

Well that's sorta true (quiet Mary! ) .. built 6' a rowing boat at school when my class were making bookends .. was building RC powered catamarans / disco gear/ motorbikes when my mates were trying to get into the pubs .. ..

Angain sorta .. but seem to think best 'serially'. What I mean by that is when I was running a IT support Help Desk I could fault find a complex international data-link and could sort of 'picture' each step / link as I was talking the customer / engineer through it. However, I don't like (can't cope with) parallel stuff .. like chess for example?

I'm printing it as I type .. I tried to count the 'yesses' as I read it but repeatly lost count?

It's funny isn't it .. I sometimes feal I have to work really hard to even do the basic stuff, stuff for example my 15 yr old daugter seems to handle easily (like spellings) but at other times can pull out of nowhere answers to things I didn't think I knew about?

Intresting stuff though John .. like when my wife was having difficulty seeing the blackboard when she was 15, it was only when she commented on this to her classmates did she realise she needed glasses!

All the best ..

T i m

[T i m]

Well they sorta do that with their some of their own apps don't they John (Word, Powerpoint etc)?

As you say though .. if they can force IE on us then a global spellchecker would be a nice gesture (email their suggestion box John?).

All the best ..

T i m

[John Rumm]

I was hoping for not only a global spellchecker, but implemented as a plugin so that you could surplant it with one of your choice and it would still retain full functionality. That way you could choose one that worked well with your typical style of error. It would also work in non MS apps including things like development tools.

[John Rumm]

Same here... probably a case of motivation as well though- remembering shopping just aint so much fun ;-)

The serial / parallel thing tends to be a male/female brain wiring limitation rather then a dyslexic one. Most men (80%) are poor at multitasking down to the way we have highly compartmentalised brains that have areas dedicated to particular tasks, where women tend to use multiple parts of the brain to work on the same problems. (hence why men have a harder time recovering from stokes).

Hmmm, another pointer!

I remember seeing an interview with the director of an architectural firm in the US that was notable for having a policy of only recruiting dyslexic architects. He explained why he preferred them (reasons mentioned previously)... but then as an after thought mentioned that he did not trust them to add up columns of figures though!

Should also add, a disproportionate amount are left handed as well.

[Calvin]

Tim noted that dictionaries are no help with spelling unless you already know the beginning of the word (and even then they're horribly slow).

My son now uses a "spelling dictionary" called A.C.E. (ISBN1855032147), available from amazon here:

works by indexing on the initial vowel sound and the number of syllables and includes spellings but not full definitions. Apparently many people who have problems remembering spellings find it comparitively easy to "hear" the first vowel sound and to sount out the syllables. It has transformed his spelling and if you struggle with spellings I'd recommend it.

[Mary Fisher]

> It works by indexing on the initial vowel sound and the number of

Well done to your son. The point is that you have toWANT to transform your spelling, you have to think it matters, you have to be bothered.

Mary

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[Calvin]

have ever witnessed the effort and distress experienced by some people with regard to spelling. People who have spelling difficulties simply can't see their own mis-spellings so they can't identify that the mistake even exists. Such a person may well look at a word and think that it might be spelled wrong but even then be completely unable to think how it might better be spelled. To suggest that each word be checked is nonsense in any real sense. It is simply not true to say that people with spelling problems generally don't want to improve their spelling, dont' think it matters and can't be bothered. Many know their spelling is poor, have spent an enormous amount of time and effort attempting to improve it and have arrived at an equilibrium whereby their standard of spelling is balanced against the tremendous effort which goes into getting it right.

[John Rumm]

Well said that man, I could not agree more!!

[Mary Fisher]

I'm aware of all of the above.

My argument is with those who say that they can't be bothered, that it's too much trouble to be courteous to a reader (that is, that the reader should do the work of interpreting because of idleness on the part of the writer), with those who question whether it matters.

Do mistakes in maths matter?

If you want to communicate effectively you do your best to make it easy for the audience. If you speak do you mumble? If you do, does it matter? Assuming you don't have a disability in speaking then yes it does matter.

Why should anyone take trouble to interpret what someone says, spellcheckers are very helpful to those who can be bothered to use them. I use one, it sorts out most typos.

Yes of course I make typos, nobody's perfect and I never claimed to be.

I really can't understand why so many people are defending poor spelling and I don't believe that they're all dyslexic.

Over and out.

Mary

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