Scary Water Pump

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No, how silly of you, you can't pump water thru a motor.
But you can of course, pump gasoline. See your car's gas tank. Or Dave Barry.
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wrote:

I may be showing a great deal of ignorance here, because the last time I had anything to do with gasoline being transferred between the tank and engine must be nearly 30 years ago.....
As I recall from those halcyon days the "pump" in my old mini wasn't a rotating motor, more of an actuator which moved back and forth forcing the petrol in and out.
I wouldn't refer to that actuator assembly as a "motor", as a motor in my mind has a circulating component.
May be completely wrong though. It's happened once this year already ;)
PoP
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water?
You can pump gasoline, however make _very_ sure you don't get down to vapour! Many years ago one of our guys wanted to get the fumes out of a car gas (petrol) tank using a vaccuum cleaner before welding a leak. The brush sparking ignited the fumes, he lost most of his beard and eyebrows. Took him years to live it down.
Regards Ian
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If he ever wants to do that again the method is to feed the exhaust pipe from a running engine into the petrol tank. Exhaust fumes, being already burnt, are inert. They flush out most of the petrol fumes and anything remaining can't burn anyway because there's no oxygen to sustain ignition.
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk) I'm not at all sure why women like men. We're argumentative, childish, unsociable and extremely unappealing naked. I'm quite grateful they do though.
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NT, you've given us a bit of an underspecified problem - thus the ensuing confusion.
When you say "possible," what do you mean? Do you mean "will it move any water at all," or do you mean "is this a reliable way to move water," or "is this a reliable and efficient way to move water," or ...? And, when you say "clean water," do you mean "clean and relatively ion-free water" or do you mean "water with no large suspended objects such as seaweed and/or rubber duckies"?
Of course you can pump clean water with a cylindrical vacuum cleaner, if you use it as a piston within some larger cylinder with appropriate valves. But I assume that's not what you mean.
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Hi
The challenge is on!

an
What RCD? Plenty of places don't have one. For this experiment its a location with no RCD, of any kind.

care)
lol, I dont think it would be extreme care trying anything like this :)

ah no, you misunderstand, its worse than that. In cylinder vacs all the air pumped by the impellor goes straight thru the motor to cool it. Not around it, thru it. That's how they use such small high power motors. So if one is used for pumping, the water goes right thru the motor mechanics and electrics from minute one. :)

conductivity tap

estimate)
We got a 500 watt motor on a 30A fuse, 240v ring main. There is the question of just how much power would flow thru the water, I don't know. I spose if we dip most of the mains lead in the water we could at least cool that too. After all its only 2A rated.

Hehe, how much you want to bet? I say it can be done. And I'm wililng to post practical results.

ensuing
any
or "is

I simply mean is it possible - not is it reliable, safe and sensible, just possible. And not for 3 seconds, but possible to empty the whole 1000 gallon tank. That's about 4.5 tonnes of rainwater. So I expect it'll need to run for more than 0.1 hours.

do you

rubber
A big tank of rain water sitting next to a house. So, barely clean, no ducks anyway. Certainly not ion free.

if you

valves. But

Hehe. What I mean is by plugging it in the mains and sticking the nozzle in the water. The really stupid way.
Well no-one's convinced me I can't do it yet :)
In case anyone's tempted, NEVER try this dangerous idea at home. Its really stupid.
Regards, NT
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snipped-for-privacy@meeow.co.uk (N. Thornton) wrote in message

Hi, I think its time for some results... will let you know what happened.
Regards, NT
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snipped-for-privacy@meeow.co.uk (N. Thornton) wrote in message

At 240V you will blow either the fuse or the windings, Put a toaster or a kettle in series with it to limit the current, Or try running it from DC 24V or 48V.
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..... Too late! .....
The experiment has been done. The vac cleaner (unmodified) was plugged into the mains (240v), and the pipe stuck in the water tank. This is not a wet n dry vac!
It pumped the entire contents of the 1000 gallon tank out sucesfully. The water went up the inlet pipe, thru the impellor, directly thru the motor running on 240v mains, and out the back end. And it did the lot.
And it still works now. No series limiting resistance, no reduced voltage, nothing.
And now I'm gonna confess something :) It had already been done before I started this thread. I wouldn't have claimed it could be done otherwise :) I didnt do it, its a barking idea, someone else did it, and the vac still works fine afterwards.
You were so convinced it wouldn't work. You were convinced, even tho you hadn't done the experiment and could find no convincing theoretical reason that would stop it. You were also convinced it was dangerous: it is if you just plug it in, tho with proper earth bonding to case, water outlet and inlet, it can be made safe. It just operates as an electrode heater, which is standard industrial kit.
This all tells me something about people, emotions, assumptions, logic, and showmanship.
Regards, NT
PS dont try this at home, ever.
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snipped-for-privacy@meeow.co.uk (N. Thornton) wrote in message

Bullshit, I'm gonna try it at home. How clean was the water? How good was your power source? No way it didn't blow a standard 15A fuse, was it done at a farm running from a weak diesel generator 2km away hooked up with bell wire?
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Me too, I never said it wouldn't work, couldn't be done etc ... If it can satisfy a perv, surely it can suck a pond dry
Anyone got an old tube vacuum cleaner they don't want?
--
geoff

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I know it wouldn't work here, and I live on a farm too! My RCD's are checked regularly and wouldn't allow such abuse. Current from either live or neutral must return to each other and not earth. Even with good earth bonding, the earth has significant resistance (more so this dry year), and dangerous voltages can be established between the earth point and where the operator is standing. Did he put a finger in the water to check? (PS do not try this at home!) Any industrial system would be double insulated from real earth. When was his wiring last checked?
Regards Anthony
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Michael wrote:

not a clever idea. Do it wrong and it could kill you. It really _is_ a stupid thing to do. Most vacs are 2 core, in which case the water will spew out live. eevn on a 3 core machine it may come out live, depending on construction details.

1000 gallons of rainwater off the roof.

240v mains, straight off the grid

correct, since we dont use 15A fuses anywhere in such circuits

no, 240v at the vac.

funny you should ask that :)

Who knows. No RCD anyway.
Don't try this at home, seriously.
Regards, NT
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