We're having a power shower installed; ie shower with a pump 1.5 atmospheres I think. We want copper pipes. The plumber urges us to use white plastic (I do not know what type) pipes because he says it reduces the number of connections which, he says, will inevitably leak Does he have a point? We'd appreciate knowledgeable comments/advice.
Well I always use plastic (the white stuff is probably Speedfit) and it's fine but any plumber who can't fit copper pipes without them "inevitably leaking" should be avoided like the plague.
No harm is using plastic, but your plumber is talking out of an orifice other than his mouth regarding copper!
Mains pressure hot or cold water is typically going to be over 3 bar (aka atmospheres), so the output pressure of your pump is not particularly high in comparison, copper pipe seems to have been able to handle mains pressure water for many years without any leakage problems.
Philip
I am not an advocate of plastic pipe usage, but advantages can be:
Smooth long radius bends used in routing plastic rather than elbows used in copper cause less pressure loss in feed pipes. The lack of necessity for elbows means less joints, therefore less likelihood of joint leaks developing in future - that's probably what your plumber meant. Copper joints, if made correctly, with correct pipe support and allowance for thermal movement will not "inevitably leak". If between floors, the pipe can be routed through holes in the centre of the floor joists rather than along notches in the top - better for the joist and less likely to suffer fixing nail damage in future. The flexibility of the pipe allows for thermal expansion - important over long runs. Vibration from the shower pump will be better absorbed by plastic rather than tranmitted around the house by copper.
From experience of poor plastic pipe installation I would recommend:
Make sure that joints are accessible if at all possible. Make sure pipe is supported in line with manufacturer's instructions. Do not accept the "washing line" type support where the points of support are two wide and allow sagging of pipe. This leads to air locks - a real pain in shower territory. Try to impress upon the plumber the need to avoid air locks by choosing a considered route (rather than just the easiest). This may cost a bit more, but will make shower maintenance in future far more practical. If he doesn't understand this then walk away.
Guess I've just convinced myself to go plastic in future!
HTH
Phil
He wants to use plastic because it's far quicker while charging you the same amount. There's no great disadvantage to plastic, but the push-fit joints are bigger and uglier. Copper looks a lot better, if done competently.
The last shower pump I installed (Techflow) recommended plastic in preference to copper because it reduces the noise transmitted along the pipes from the pump.
Why?
In a previous posting a month or so ago I mentioned my brand new Barratt house where I had three leaks in just over a year. What kind of plumbing had Barratt installed? The kind of white plastic with push fittings, at least a hundred on them on three bathrooms and the central heating. The fittings are alleged (by the manufacturer) to last at least 20 years, but I allege that a hundred push fittings on plastic pipes in a house is a recipe for disaster. Plastic pipes - probably OK, it's the joins that are going to pop.
On the continent (I've lived in Switzerland, Germany and have built in France) plumbers arrive with rolls of copper or plastic pipes - not a single hidden join in sight. Maybe you could propose to your plumber to do the same.
In message , cs wrote
Push fitting allow the unskilled labourer to complete the plumbing in a cost effective way - the Barratt way..
...when installed and made correctly. BY far the commonest mistake is not using inserts and not pushing the pipe in far enough. The joints themselves are reliable in my experience.
With planning few joints are needed when using plastic pipe over and above those needed for branching and connecting.
Less skill but not no skill. I expect that H&S/insurance/nanny-state considerations are making the use of flames difficult on site.
Just google on IMM for examples of what can happen when used with no skill ;-)
IMM did highlight cowboy DIYers, plumbers and poor quality fittings, and especially ignorance of DIYers.
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Thanks for all your replies. We've gone ahead with it using copper.
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