Petrol tool service manuals?

[T i m]

Hi All,

Would anyone know if I could get (ideally) free / online copies of the

*Service* manuals for the following kit please (assuming such things even exist):

Stihl SH-55 leaf blower. Husqvarna 265RX brush cutter. Ryobi RGBV30100 leaf blower.

I have the user manuals for all three but there doesn't seem to be any service / low-level fault finding info freely downloadable (well, not that I've found anyway). If the worst came to the worst I could buy the genuine thing (if they weren't too expensive). What about these DVD compilations from eBay, anyone used such?

We have been kindly given the said kit in various states of 'not working' for daughter to practice her maintenance stuff on (Arb apprenticeship) and although we will be able to explore I feel she would like some sort of 'plan / guide' re what bit should be removed / cleaned / checked / measured (so we need info for that last bit) as 'good practice' to procedural fault finding.

I can / will help her of course but I thought getting her to work from a service manual may help her get some of this under her belt with some logical explanation 'why' rather than "just take that bit off because .." sorta thing. (Whilst I try I sometimes forget I rebuilt my first car engine when I was 15, all from the HBOL and a lot of interest. Plus you do get the odd 'never remove this bit' or left hand threads so a decent manual can help all of us).

Cheers, T i m

[AJH]

I cannot help with manuals but there's no need of one in diagnosing the faults these fall into few categories:

Ignition, generally doesn't fail nowadays, test by grounding plug and spinning engine faster than 400rpm.

Carburation, gets bad slowly, normal first signs are poor tickover. If you cannot get any firing at all it's unlikely to be fuel system. Points to look at before replacing flap valves and diaphragms are the fuel filter in the tank and the breather in the tank. Basic setting of the two mixture screws is often 3/4 turn open.

Probably has carb with primer

Likely just primed with the choke, my 245rs were very prone to seizing when used as strimmers because people would use them at part throttle, not only is the mixture wrong but the cooling fan is running less efficiently. Assuming it turns over, first step is to remove silencer and check the ring is free at the exhaust port.

AJH

[T i m]

Not for you and me maybe but for a 18yr old (girl) who has not had

*any* experience with such things before (outside the few hours she's had so far at college and then only on one model) it might not be so 'easy'.

Hmmm, my Dad demonstrated that little trick when I was about 10 and a British Seagull outboard motor plug lead! Again, once she's shown I'm sure she would be ok with the process but there can even be a quite a few variable even on that little exercise. Like, very short HT leads or even pulling the plug cap off without ripping it off the lead and / or actually getting a plug out.

Understood. The Ryobi falls into this category as it *nearly* runs. My BIL's petrol strimmer ran but with no 'oomph'. After we checked the obvious I suggested he clear the exhaust and that was it.

Ok thanks.

The Ryobi has a primer but I'm not sure if it's a carb or pump (or what the differences are as such. Float bowl and syphon fed fuel = carb)?

Yes, I don't think there is a primer on this Husky. (oh, and it's between a 1 > 1-1/4 turns on that carb apparently) ;-)

It turns over and has reasonable compression but we will give it a good check over before we try to fire it up (it makes yer arm hurt otherwise). ;-(

Years ago I bought an old Bedford CF camper (ex ambulance) that just didn't want to start on it's own. A bit of Damp / Easy start in the carb and it would run instantly (but fade out). Gradually over two or three sessions of starting and running in on easy start I managed to wean it off that and back onto petrol and it was fine thereafter. ;-)

In fact that's one of my first experiments these days. A puff of Easy start either down the plug hole or in the inlet and see what it does. If it fires (even once) it's probably a fuel issue.

Anyway, this is all for her to learn! ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[AJH]

They're simple carburetors but instead of a float bowl they have a diaphragm that acts as a hydraulic capacitor, it is filled via a pump, that works off the crankcase pressure, which tends to be at the opposite end of the carb. The diaphragm pushes a small fork attached to what would be the float needle which controls fuel into the chamber, atmospheric pressure is at the other side of the diaphragm so as this is pushed in the float needle valve opens and fuel pushes past. You can diagnose a lot of carb problems by applying a low pressure (its like an old manual blood pressure pump and gauge) to the fuel inlet and then watching how the pressure drops with changes to hi and lo jets.

The thing to realise is that they are simple and with no mixture compensation, so they are set up to work at idle and full bore. The power is essentially controlled by the load and the fact the engine will four stroke from over rich mixture if the load comes off.

Mind my newest saw is 12 years old so thing will have changed.

AJH

[T i m]

Ah, that sounds just like the one I recently stripped down on an old petrol hedge trimmer I was given but I wasn't sure if you still called it a carb (as it is really a pump then)?

Ok, good tip. ;-)

Ah, and hence why only the two adjustments etc.

I had noticed that and it's sorta part of what they are isn't it.

I guess this little collection aren't that new either (and partly why we have been given them etc).

I've just phoned one of the Arb places we use (re getting a dead chainsaw to play with) and (of course) we have just missed their last big clear out of old gear (in the skip). :-(

Oh well, he said we should try again in a month or so.

Cheers, T i m

[AJH]

I've got some you can mend for me if you like ;-)

AJH

[T i m]

Well, I can't guarantee the mend bit but she'd certainly like to work on them and try! ;-)

On the course they remove and strip things like the recoil starter (presumably so they would know how to do so in the field), strip the clutch, chain brake and of course, how to replace and / or sharpen the chain. The trouble is they only have a limited range of kit and an even more limited amount of time to get through all the modules with

15 students doing one day a week.

She's ok on the listening, learning and doing stuff at the basic level but could do with a confidence boost when it comes to things more mechanical. She prefers to do some of the more unfamiliar stuff at her own pace so she can really get to understand it properly. She even went in for an afternoon so she could get to grips with the chainsaw sharpening thing. We would probably be able to do it ok with a bit of common sense and applied experience but would we know that to get your ticket, all the teeth should be the same size but there is a maximum number that can be smaller (if they were say damaged, like 3 or summat I think she said)?

Anyway, what do they say ...

What you hear you forget, what you see you remember and what you do you understand?

Cheers, T i m

[The Natural Philosopher]

Odd obe that. My chainsaw hasn't but my hedger trimmer has (both stihl)

My strimmer packed up after winter. clunk in tank gummed with oil and shit. Managed to get it half out of the tank and off the fuel line, washed it and blew it clear. It ran!

Key here was the primer was slow to work

[T i m]

I like the idea of a primer as at least you have another entry point into the system that you can get feedback from. As you said, if you pump the primer and it doesn't 'pump up' within a few strokes there's probably summat up somewhere (blockage in the input path) and you can make sure the fuel is where it should be to reduce the No of pulls for starting etc.

On the RC IC engines it was real good if you could get a finger over the air intake (carb) and turn the engine over to prime it (more difficult on cars with air filters etc).

;-)

I think it's the oil that causes the issues here. My (4/) Royal Enfield motorbike was left for about 3 years untouched and started first time (well, third kick ) and ran on petrol that smelled more like paraffin! I think we are supposed to drain the fuel if the machine is going to be laid up for an 'extended period' but do we always know that's what is going to happen when we put them away?

Sfunny, the Sierra was always a slow starter (needed spinning over a few seconds) but this Rover 218SD and the 1300 Kent based kit car both start with the merest touch of the starter.

Cheers, T i m

[gilli]

Hi,

These people have some exploded diagrams.

here

=20

I would ask on your local Freeserve for donated items for this purpose as you have explained here.

Might be worth a look at other diy forums and sites. like this:

luck David Gilliland

[T i m]

(thanks).

That's how I came across two of the three items. ;-)

There do seem to be quite a few sites and even Youtube videos covering various aspects of power tool (especially chainsaw) repair and maintenance. The problem is we won't have the Internet in my mates garage whilst doing this work and they don't generally go into as much detail as a good service manual. :-(

I may give the manufacturers of said kit a ring on Monday and see if their genuine service books are available (to end users) and affordable.

Thanks! ;-)

T i m

[meow2222]

I think I'd agree that learning to service them without manuals would be more useful. That way youre concentrating on core principles, and the things that work with all IC engines. Resulting knowledge is going to be a lot more useful. The basic IC principles are pretty simple, and fault finding is a case of divide and conquer, starting with differentiating fuel from spark troubles, etc.

NT

[T i m]

Ok ..

And agreed, but if I gave you (say) a complex mechanical clock mechanism would you know where to start, what to avoid, what to adjust things to or how to put it back together again? This particular daughter is very good at Art, Music, English whereas her Dad isn't, feeling more at one with things mechanical. We are all different.

My point was that yes, she could probably take stuff to pieces (eventually) but if she does so without the benefit of some guidance (service manuals, strip down guides [1]) it would easy to turn a potential repair into a heap of written off mechanical components. :-(

Yer basic low level / fault finding should be ok of course, but I have ripped stuff to bits in the past, assuming it was a foregone conclusion it was destined for the scrap, only to discover some minor broken cheap component, or easily removable foreign body was stopping it working in the fist place. Had I had the service manual I might have know (say) a retaining screw was accessible from behind a blanking plug and wouldn't of broken that cover in my keenness to strip the thing down?

The Stihl leaf blower we were given for example has come from a professional workshop because they 'couldn't afford to spend any more time on it'. What if the primary of the coil was shorted by 10% (they said their was a spark), how would I know what the resistance of the primary should be without the right documentation or identify that as a potential faulty component without access to substitute parts?

Cheers, T i m

[1] Even I cant always know what hand thread something has or if X can sometimes be removed by levering or always needs a special puller.

[meow2222]

I agree that she'll need guidance to learn at a decent pace. My point is just that model specific manuals arent going to give her a very useful type of guidance. They generally dont, IME at least, give any overview or any clear guidance on fault finding. A book aimed at IC engine repair in a general sense perhaps would.

Either there's a spark or there isnt. Its that simple. Sure one can get more into things, but for a newbie thats way out of her level of expertise.

NT

[T i m]

Hmmm. You may well be right, I am obviously more aware or her abilities, interest and attitude sometimes (teenager). Think teaching yer Mrs to drive sort of thing.

Is it? I had a 2/ moped that just died one day. Took plug out and checked for 'whiskers' and it was clean. Put the plug back in the cap, laid it on the head and span the engine over, there was a spark. Put plug back in engine, nothing. Long story short, the wire had come off the 'condenser' and that meant there was a spark but only when the plug was not under pressure (where it counted).

Possibly, I was thinking more along the lines of 'ok, we have checked for compression, fuel, and there seems to be a spark but it won't start, let's now actually measure the compression (check spec) and measure the coil to see if that's within spec (check spec), check the timing (check spec).

All the best ..

T i m

[meow2222]

I'm hiding already! :)

Yes, there are tough cases... but she needs to learn the basics, not the advanced stuff. I once had one that just about ran but with very low power output, it turned out that although a spark was present with no spark plug, when the plug was in it was just running across the insulator surface, giving very poor ignition.

NT

[BigWallop]

Any instruction manual on the principal of how the engine works, would do the trick. The attachments are just bolted onto the engine, but it's the engine you need to learn about.

Picking particular makes and models is limiting the knowledge to those machines, but knowing how all these types of engines, clutches and power packs work, means you know how to repair any of them.

Find a website or book that shows her how the engines work and she'll find that they are all the same, just in different shapes.

Learning how to sharpen the saws and blades comes with practice, but they are all the same principal as well. When you know how, you can do it on all of them.

[T i m]

Mostly, yep.

True, especially if you are that way inclined. Personally, a car and a washing machine are just a mix of pipes, pumps, wires and motors and a compressor and automatic shotgun are just pneumatics. ;-)

True, however, if she decides she want's to strip one of these engines right down she also needs to know stuff like how to hold a flywheel and then which way to turn the retaining nut. If the Woodruff key has sheared how should she then hold the crank still to undo the nut? Is it safe just to pull the recoil starter spring out of it's housing etc etc.

All I'm saying here is it might (IMHO) be good to at least see a proper service manual for the first one she strips down (so she doesn't do any expensive / irreparable damage) and we both know the right way. If I'm doing something I normally get some subliminal picture of what screws came from where, which way up that washer went etc but it's still comforting to have a nice exploded diagram (or some digicam pics) to fall back on. Plus, you never who has been in there before and missed summat out or substituted the wrong part, swapped the jets round etc etc. Getting something started that should work is a different ball game to trying to start something that never will (if nothing else for their confidence).

Indeed. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[BigWallop]

I do get what you mean. It might be worth a phone call or e-mail to the different makers, asking for old manuals of obsolete machines. The workings are pretty much the same for them all, with just small / slight differences. Also, the different manufacturers have different methods of fuel supply systems, which would give a few clues as to how most of these machines get their working energy.

If I find any, I'll get them sent or e-mail them to you. We must have some old booklets and service literature lying around somewhere. Me, is going for a hunt in the old document suitcases. :-)

[BigWallop]

differences.

I'm forgetting the good old "HowStuffWorks.com" web site

. It's a good source of basic information. Let her have a look through the particular pages she needs.