OTish; When does a step become a deck.

[The Medway Handyman]

Last October the rules changed and any 'deck' more than 30cm above the 'ground' needs planning permission.

I've been communicating with my local authority, who clearly don't understand the (prolly badly drawn) legislation.

Very common situation with new builds or extensions is that the patio doors opening onto the garden are say 45cm above the garden level, therefore pretty much unusable.

What I'm after is the definition of a 'deck' and 'ground'.

If I were to build a step 15cm high leading onto a deck, how big or little would that step have to be before it became a 'deck'?

If I built a deck over 30 cm high and built a raised bed level with the edge, how big does that have to be to be classified as 'ground'?

Few examples at

& Clares deck for example, the garden slopes from left to right, one end is 30cm above ground, the other end is higher.

Joe & Terri's deck is 15cm off the ground on one side but a lot more above the grassed area - but would the top off the wall count as 'ground'?

Typical govmint legislation. badly thought out.

[Cicero]

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You could argue that 'ground level' is 6" below the height of the damp-proof course in the adjacent building (assuming that there is a building, since this is the height above which there should be no paths, flower beds, etc.

Cic.

[neverwas]

Yep. The Department for Communities and Local Government appear to have ignored requests for clarification on the issues you raise which were made in response to the consultative document.

On "deck", the legislation actually refers to "a veranda, balcony or raised platform". There's no definition of "raised platform". It

*might* be that it'd be construed in the light of "veranda, balcony " . On the other hand it might be that "raised platform" just takes its ordinary meaning (whatever that is). Either way I'd think you'd have a pretty good case for arguing steps ain't a platform. But I ain't a lawyer and what really matters is what the planning officer thinks.

The consultation document prompted some to comment that the rule on decking needed careful drafting to avoid confusion; and that ground level should take into account slope and pre-existing ground levels. So you can tell how much the department was bothered. But your avoidance device might work (unless of course the bed is over 300mm high and is itself a "raised platform"?)

FWIW the ex. memo. to the regulations said that "Shayne Coulson at the Department for Communities and Local Government (tel: [phone] or email: [e-mail]) can answer any queries regarding the instrument" so if you are feeling lucky you could ask him. Of course the chances are he's moved on to a different job since the regulations were made over a year ago :)

[tim.....]

I doubt very much that raising the level of the ground outside the decked area is a loop-hole here.

tim

[Clint Sharp]

In message , The Medway Handyman writes

Ho bollocks, I *wish* you hadn't posted that.

[The Medway Handyman]

Do I assume you have just built one then ?

Sorry! :-)

[Owain]

Is the wood datestamped or could it be passed off as having been built in September 08?

Owain

[Roger Mills]

Dunno - but a reasonable interpretation may be that a step is a solid object (Brick, concrete, etc.) whereas a deck is a raised wooden structure with fresh air underneath.

BTW, in the first example shown in your photos, how the hell do you get to the drains now that they're all boxed in?

[tim.....]

You "only" have to wait two years before the council can do nothing about it anyway (provided that you haven't hidden it from view)

I can't imagine that anyone is going to notice a deck that is, say, 60 cm off the ground, and complain, so the regulation seems entirely pointless for low level decks. (and what is the point of it anyway?)

tim

[The Medway Handyman]

Funny enough the bloke who owns the house in that picture is - a drain cleaning guy.

The boards between the last joist & the wall plate are cut to allow removal of a 40cm length. If there is an inspection cover we build a hatch over it. In either case it can be accessed by removing at most 16 screws.

[The Medway Handyman]

The only point I can see is that, if you are over 30cm up you might be able to see over your fence & intrude on your neighbours privacy. I mention this when quoting if appropriate and usually get the extra work of installing trellis :-)

[Frank Erskine]

On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:23:59 GMT, "The Medway Handyman" had this to say:

[nightjar]

I would say that a step is something that only has transitory use - in passing from one level to another. As soon as you can use it for another purpose, such as putting a chair on it, it becomes a raised platform. In practice, it will be whatever your local building inspector says it is, unless and until there is a Court rulling on the matter.

That is irrelevant. The decking needs planning permission if it is more than

30cm above the *existing* ground level i.e. what it was before you started. On sloping sites, it will be the lowest point on the ground under the decking that counts.

Colin Bignell

[John Rumm]

There is no mandatory minimum fence height though....

Quite handy on occasions the odd bit f trellis! ;-)

[The Medway Handyman]

Will you welcome please; Mr & Mrs Decker and their pirate son Black Hand.

[Hugo Nebula]

On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:27:40 +0100, a certain chimpanzee, "nightjar" randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Your local building inspector would rather not be dragged into commenting on planning matters.

Whilst the Building Regulations requirements for stairs strictly speaking don't apply to any change in level of less than 600mm in dwellings, nevertheless one could use the guidance as, well, guidance. An exit should have a level landing, clear of any door swinging across it, at least as wide as the stair leading to or from it, and for access to the building for disabled people, landings should be 1200mm as a minimum. So if you had 1500mm wide french doors swinging outwards, then the 'landing' should be 1500mm plus the width of the doors out from the building, say 2250mm. You will then want to make the steps with rises of between 75mm-150mm, and goings of at least

280mm, in order to make them nice and easy for people with limited mobility, or better still a level approach no steeper than 1:20.

[Owain]

Closely followed by Mr & Mrs Sadoor and their charming daughter Amber.

Owain

[Dave]

I wouldn't look at it as a loop hole, more like landscaping the garden. That has never been illegal.

Dave

[The Medway Handyman]

But if said step is too small to have another use - if it were 30cm wide x

200cm long for example?

AFAIUI the legislation doen't mention building control "Building regulations should be assumed to apply to every structure that requires planning permission". Is about all I can find.

[js.b1]

That which a reasonable person would view it as a "deck".

It comes down to a test of reasonableness re planning officer. Legislation context is w.r.t. "overlooking". Magistrates will not entertain an idiot PP over a tiny step provided for implied H&S usage of a deck.

Build your deck below 30cm. Build any step sized only to provide safe entry/exit to deck.

I see no problem with an intermediate step sized to door-width & stair- depth to adjust 45-35cm house-floor to 30-0cm deck. The deck is below

30cm. The step must not remotely be sized as a "deck" by any reasonable person's interpretation. You can't take the piss, but *they* can try - at their expense and media embarrasment and household insurance lawyers. Full stop.

Which PP wants to be the first to put its hand up for cost cutting on Newsnight?