OT Energy consultants and smart meters

[news]

Is anyone else getting pestered by "energy consultants" offering to act on one's behalf, have smart meters installed and then negotiating a unit price while it is low now for when renewal is due next winter? We do use a lot of electrical units in our yard (3 72kW supplies) but how do they make their profit. I am a bit naive about smart meters apart from knowing they communicate consumption in real time.

It reminds me of slamming with telephone providers in the past but I wonder what the catch is?

Similarly I'm having cleaning chemical firms offering to send sample packs out of the blue claiming we have done business in the past, when we haven't. Again this reminds me of the old carbon copy paper scam from the 60s.

I presume as a business even if I ask them to stop pestering me and they continue no laws are being broken?

[Bob Minchin]

Look up the recent thread in this NG regarding the pros and cons of smart meters.

[Dave Liquorice]

negotiating

winter?

Which being about domestic smart meters might not be relevant to 3 x

300 A supplies (is that 300 A per phase 3 phase supply?).

I'd be very wary of any company cold calling but there are companies out there that do manage electricity supplies for large, (FSVO "large") consumers of power. Donno what they do but "realtime" pricing from the grid based on what all their customers are using might be part of it. This would need a "smart meter". GIYF...

[Andrew Gabriel]

There's currently a big problem with businesses getting slammed, and inadequate legal protection for them. It often happens following a conversation with an "energy consultant" and the business doesn't believe they consented to the change, which includes a long contract at highly uncompetitve rates, and high premature termination cost. They usually aim for small businesses, which get suckered in more easily. Radio 4 has covered this a few times.

[news]

I think it's 100 Amp per phase which if they are balanced gives 72kW but in practice we don't get too near that as the supplies are to several units. The reason for 3 supplies is that above 100A direct current monitoring meters are not available and you get complications with peak power and half hourly tariffs.

AJH

[news]

This was my fear, there is no advantage in smart metering to us as I supply meter readings and receive a correct bill once a month which is taken by direct debit.

My suspicions were aroused when they asked for Meter Point Admin Numbers. These contain details of the type of supply. The request for authorisation to contact the supplier really set alarm bells ringing.

Yes I thought the reason for targeting small businesses was because they did not benefit from consumer protection like a private individual.

...and I did read the whole smart meter thread

AJH

[tim.....]

you presume wrong

The "cold calling" laws requires companies to abide by all specific requests not to call, irrespective of whether the requesting party is a business or an individual.

It's only the blanket "opt out" that applies to individuals only.

Of course:

a) getting that rule enforced

b) the company suffering sufficient penalty of breaking it

will be a long wait

tim

[Dave Liquorice]

I have never been able to get my head around 3 phase and power. 100 A per phase fully loaded and balanced (ie no neutral curent) is surely

415 * 100 = 41.5 kW per phase * 3 = 124.5 kW total? 72 kW at 240 V is 300 A, but 240 is the phase to neutral voltage, 415 being the phase to phase. Ah, light bulb moment, delta v star wiring...

I vaugely remember something about a TV studio supply, if the studio wasn't working it took naff all but working would push things to the

100 A / phase (notional) limit. Mainly because the the cameras (Philips PC60's) wern't very sensitive, light levels high and so was the heat, all that power going into tungsten filament lamps. The tarrif allowed for this high peak demand without breaking the bank.

As you are on a "traditional" tariff it might be worth looking to see what savings (if any) could be made by have a "managed" one that deals with the peaks and half hourly stuff for you. Note this is you spending an hour on google not giving details to a cold caller...

[news]

I am no electrician but you have to consider that at max power the sum of the currents is zero so you actually only need to know the voltage and the current in one leg to work out the maximum power

I think this means the MCB would trip if any phase exceeded 100A even though current between the phases could be substantially more than this.

[Fredxxx]

The max power from 100A 3-Phase = 230 * 3 * 100 = 69kW

As you say no neutral current would flow.

If you place loads across phases you will get 400V across loads, but each load will be taking 100A / sqrt(3). So 400 * 3 * 100 / sqrt(3) = 69kW

The phase current would still be 100A, despite being 57A going to each load due to vector cancellation.

[Fredxxx]

The only way a current between phases could ever be more than the max

100A is where there's just one load between two of the phases, and where some serious power factor correction is going on in the two affected phases.