MEM Gridwwitch 8000

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come
I know how you feel. The regs are at time very non-specific.
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maintenance
a
Those ugly electric oven isolators? Can they be in a cupboard under a sink?
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Why would you use fused spurs? All appliances come with a plug which is already fused.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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wrote:

the
Not very convenient if the fuse blows, haul out the appliance, un-plug and change fuse, heave appliance back into place - apposed to use removing fuse from face plate....
IMO all appliances should be wired in such a way. It's like plumbers placing shut off valves to washing machine flexible intake pipes (for example) behind the appliance - bloody useless if the flexible pipe leaks !...
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wrote:

fuse
placing
You will finds that electrical and plumbing regs say the isolating switches/valve must be accessible. Once again, open to interpretation. Fitting a washing machine valve directly behind is a no, no. In new properties the valves, drain connections and electrical sockets are usually under the sink. It generally looks a mess down there, especially if the pipe/isolation valves are not fitted correctly. It is best to form a manifold fitted as high as possible, with the isolation valves facing downwards.
Fitting double pole switched sockets under a sink for all appliances would eliminate the need for a fused spur up top.
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You don't need a switched socket at all. To isolate, simply unplug it.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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So you remove the plug from the appliance and hard wire it in? Bit of a pain if you need to move it for cleaning etc. If it's still plugged in but has a supplementary fuse in an FCU etc, you can bet your bottom dollar that it's still the fuse in the plug that goes...
FWIW, all that faffing around for the unlikely event of a fuse blowing - I've only ever had this happen once with kitchen appliances, and this required removal of the appliance from its 'housing' to fix the fault anyway, so being able to unplug it for servicing was far more of an advantage.
As regards being able to isolate kitchen appliances via a wall switch - again why bother? They all have off/on switches anyway. In the very unlikely event of this failing and the appliance had to be shut off at the same time urgently you could simply switch off the appropriate ring at the CU.

That's rather different. You need shut off valves, so you should situate them where they are easily accessible. And the same could be the case for the socket feeding the machine. It doesn't have to be behind the machine either.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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You could use unfused 15A round pin sockets off a fused spur.
Myself, I agree that having the fuse in the plug isn't a problem. I used a 20A DP switch instead of an FCU to avoid having two fuses, and allowing a more pretty grid switch based solution that wouldn't take up too much space on the tiles.
Christian.
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So you cut off one plug merely to substitute another? Sounds like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Also, are suitable shuttered 15 amp sockets available, and at what cost?

That would make more sense if you really, really must have a separate switch for your appliances. But I think it's just making work for the sake of it - dedicated low situated sockets inside adjacent cupboards would be my way if a re-wire was undertaken.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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wrote: <snip>

We are back to placing the means of isolating in somewhere that is a/. not accessible and b/. only known to the property owner and the electrician who did the rewire and not to others - possibly even the lady of the house ! :~)
Also, in the case of washing machines etc. were there could be a fault involving leaking water would really want to either touch the unit before moving it or switch off a ring circuit rather than just a DP switch placed some where accessible ?
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On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 14:06:14 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman wrote:

Cupboards have backs and sides and a services void at least a couple of inches deep behind the back panel. How do you mount/wire a socket to the, normally poorly supported, hardboard cupboard back?
When I get to doing the kitchen here It'll have below worktop unswitched sockets for appliances fed from a grid switch panel fitted with 20A DP switches in the room, fuses for each socket also mounted in the grid, I think not thought to hard about this yet...
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In new properties the sockets are fixed to the side cupboard panels of the sink cupboard.
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This is what I did, except there is no need for fuses in the grid switch. It is better to have only the fuse in the plug top. The grid switch is fed from a dedicated 32A 6mm radial and feeds only a w/m, d/w and t/d.
Christian.
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It
from
So if the fuse blows you have to drag out an integrated appliance. If it is fitted correctly the socket should be accessible.
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I'm not having both the switch AND an ugly socket with cable going through an ugly hole in the worktop. Generally speaking, if the fuse goes on an appliance, you want to drag it out to give at least a visual inspection for scorch marks before replacing the fuse.
Christian.
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Wouldn't you anyway to fix the fault that caused the fuse to blow?
A fuse blowing for no reason is so rare as to be ignored in planning terms.

If you're going to the lengths of installing dedicated switches for appliances why not install new sockets in sensible positions too?
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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wrote:

terms.
If sockets are installed into cupboards it means the socket is not accessible (unless the cupboard has little in it) and also means ugly great holes in the side to allow a 13 amp plug to pass through. If you're going to the bother of cutting the socket off to feed the wire through a small hole you might as well fit a connection unit someplace....
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There'll be great ugly holes for the water and waste pipes too...
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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wrote:

Not if correctly installed, there will be a 22mm hole for a 20mm pipe and not a whacking great 50mm hole for a 10mm pipe IYSWIM !...
Best Regards to you Dave.
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If you combine the holes for the waste and fill, you should be able to get the mains plug through that first.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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