M akita or RYOBI

[IMM]

It can! The makita will last longer with day to day pro use, that's all.

A DIYer paying over £20 for battery drill is madness. Even few pros don't pay that these days.

[IMM]

You have nonsense in your mind that DIY tools only last 2-3 years. My 1980 B&D is still going.

Look around then.

[Andy Hall]

I am talking about the quality of work and ease of use as well as reliability in the sense of work/not work.

I like to be able to do a good job and to do so comfortably and efficiently.

I haven't said that at all. I have simply said that when measured against the criteria that I have, it is very clear to me that I can get a level of quality and reliability from branded tools at the medium and high end that I can't from low end private label stuff.

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

That is completely untrue. The speed and torque control, battery behaviour and clutch arrangements are vastly superior to private label £50 jobs.

No it isn't.

Once again you are making the mistake of assuming that DIY automatically equates with cheap. For some people that is the case, for others it isn't.

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

I never have nonsense in my mind.

I was referring more to the cheap private labelled stuff that is sold on a disposable basis by the DIY stores. My experience with products of that type has been disappointing in terms of quality and reliability. I don't have the time to waste to go and buy any more tools in this category because the chances are more than evens that I will be disappointed because of reliability, quality of result or ease of use. I would rather just buy a decent thing once and be done with it.

Some B&D products, certainly of that era are quite good for what they are and I still have one or two. They don't get a lot of use any longer because I have better ones now.

I have. It doesn't as far as I am concerned

.andy

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[Dave Plowman]

Says more about your definition of 'pro' than anything else...

[IMM]

Well go to £70-80 then, like the Wickes drill, which is a Kress, and still you can buy about 3 of these to a makita equiv.

should have been: "A DIYer paying over £200 for battery drill is madness. Even few pros don't pay that these days."

[IMM]

You jest of course.

The thread morphed into rip-pff pro tools to medium priced semi-pro/DIY usage tools.

I have had appalling experiences with Bosch tools, to the point that I don't buy expensive rip-off tools anymore. I, like most people on this ng, don't use power tools constantly on a day to day basis, so buying these sort of super expensive tools is madness.

[Lurch]

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:20:06 -0000, in uk.d-i-y "IMM" strung together this:

The problem there is Bosch are overpriced DIY tools so don't fall into the pro category other than on price.

I didn't notice anyone saying DIY'ers should be spending hundreds of pounds on power tools, merely that DIY tools are for light duty use, professional, branded makes are more for the pro market.

[IMM]

Many were defending high priced tools, while totally dismissing anything else as rubbish, and were more than implying DIYers should buy them.

[Andy Hall]

e £50-60 drills won't do what my Makita can.

That's not a meaningful comparison, as far as I am concerned. The Makita of same voltage is not an equivalent.

That depends on your value criteria and what you want to do.

There aren't many cordless drill drivers over £200 anyway. You can get a Makita 14.4v model with two batteries for £183 from Axminster.

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

No, I wouldn't want to compete with you regarding that particular skill :-)

That's sad. I don't buy expensive rip off tools either.

I do take the total cost of ownership into account and what I want to achieve and find that a good guide on what to buy.

It really depends on how you account for what you are doing, the quality of work and the ease of use and reliability.

If your sole criterion is purchase cost, then you may be right. I have several others as well and find tool purchase cost within reason is but one aspect.

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

I don't think that anybody said that either. It depends on one's point of view as to what is important.

If somebody feels that paying more for a higher quality tool is justified for them, what they want to do and how often they want to do it then these are their purchase criteria.

It's equally valid for somebody to take the position that the purchase cost is the most important factor and that they will accept the limitations of a cheaper tool.

It isn't reasonable to suggest that because something is "only for DIY" and therefore won't be used a lot that it isn't justified to buy a good quality product; in fact it's somewhat demeaning to somebody wanting to DIY to a high standard and needing the tools to do it.

I've certainly never suggested that people should go out and buy expensive tools just for the sake of it, or that one can't produce reasonable results with a cheap tool. It's a matter of degree.

However, when you set all of this in the context of using personal time as an alternative to using professionals, the cost of the personal time comes into the equation as well as the result. When all of those factors are considered, things that can be done to maximise the use of DIY time and produce a good and satisfying result become important. If buying a good quality tool helps to produce a good result in a good timescale and results in less user fatigue and wasted time, then it is worth considering, in my view..

.andy

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[tpaul]

snip

Can't agree. We have quite a few blue Bosch cordless drills and they give very little trouble. They are worked hard, which encompasses the full panoply of abuse, dropped, kicked, walked on, left to rattle around in the back of a van and they survive fine. The only complaint we have is that if a long double ended posi drive bit is used without a bit holder it can un-screw the chuck. We have a local service agent but have never needed him

Previously we ran Elu and they were fairly bullet proof also.

We have Makita also and service is easily obtained. They last the course also and batteries last and last.

A small Hitachi, 9.6v, is also a favourite due to its small size and light weight, but only used realy as a screw driver. The batteries don't last as long.

My personal favourite is Panasonic. Loads of power and endurance.

Having said all of that one of our fitters bought a spurious Makita

24v from a rogue trader. Its a big hulking brute of a thing but I picked it up recently to run a Hettich hinge sinker jig and it made short work of drilling the 35mm hole despite a bluntish bit.

Who knows how long it will last.

All this talk about cordless drills and no-one is mentioning the ergonomics of the things. The weight, balance, feel of a drill etc. are all important if it is going to be used regularly. IMHO of all of the above the Panasonic wins on all counts. The Bosch are a bit tipsy if set down up-right on their battery and inserting the batteries into tyem can be a bit finicky. The Makitas we use are the older type with the long thin battery. These work well when held in a choke grip around the back of the head rather than by the handle but that doesn't always suit.

Yonks ago I had a little Black and Decker 9.6v driver. It was a delight to use for driving screws being so small and light. Unfortunately the batteries were rubbish.

Paul Mc Cann

[mark]

In message , IMM writes

I have had 2 sets of makita 9.6v drill drivers. Under constant (6 days a week) hard work they have both lasted ten years (strangely the ni-cads that came with them lasted 7).

Only repair was a slow start switch; 17 quid and easy to fit on the older drill.

I have just bought an 18v makita combi and I'm delighted with the quality of the thing.

All our equipment is makita and I think they're bullet proof. The only exception is a 20 year old bosch jigsaw (remember them?), an argos breaker that we bought to see if we could kill it (not yet; but it's still pretty new) and a I've just been talked into buying a De-walt 650w (?) sds drill/breaker which is about to get very seriously used on one particular job. I'll keep you posted. It's makita peer has already passed the test and still lives :)