He is a qualified gas engineer who would get absolutely no benefit from the replacement of the system and who has seen what the gas pipes look like. I would not doubt what he said. I would question whether he meant for every pipe to be replaced, rather than simply the ones that are currently in use.
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He had no reason to lie. He would also be in trouble with his employers if he disconnected an elderly person's sole means of heating without good cause.
Welcome to "Find the Leak", and new interactive adventure from Transcocom. You can save the game at any time and return later. Your score is currently 0 out of 143.
You are in a large hallway in a house There is a faint smell of gas. There is a cupboard here. Exits lead East, West, South, North, and Up.
You are carrying: a bag of spanners, a can of parrot snot, and a manometer.
You are in small dusty cupboard under a staircase. There is a gas meter and a maze of rusty pipes that run is all directions. There is a dead mouse. There is a strong smell of gas. Exit to the east.
Manometer shows system loosing 5" of pressure during test duration.
You can't do that. You are in a cupboard.
You are in a large hallway.
You run all around the house and disconnect a boiler and a cooker. All seven other gas points appear to be unused.
You are in a hallway. Exits lead East, West, South, North, and Up.
You are in small dusty cupboard.
Manometer shows system loosing 5" of pressure during test duration.
Pipes are old and rusty, run in all directions, and then vanish under the floor.
You are in a hallway. Exits lead East, West, South, North, and Up. There is a Wise Man here.
He is wearing blue overalls, and looks like a wise gas engineer.
Engineer says "What do you want to know?"
Engineer says "Could be anywhere. Chances are looking at the state of the pipework, you have several leaks"
Engineer says "You could disconnect one of the unused pipes and cap it off, and then retest"
Engineer says "Probably not, but it might"
Engineer says "You could do the same with the next branch"
Engineer says "Probably not, but it might"
Engineer says "When all branches are capped and you have no working gas appliances"
Engineer says "Probably not, but it might"
Engineer says "Could take days"
Engineer says "£250/day"
Engineer says "Install 5m of new pipe to boiler and cooker, and disconnect all the existing pipes. Then retest"
Engineer says "Yes"
Engineer says "£150"
Night falls, You are in a hallway. A client has just walked in. Client asks "What should I do, its getting cold in here?". You feel you are at a crossroads. Do you follow the advice of the wise man, or do tell your client to follow the map to the area that says "there be dragons here"?
Given that the gas engineer would gain nothing by recommending the work be done and he did so after seeing the pipework, I would be inclined to think it was.
To what, exactly? The info about the electricity supply industry is interesting and spurs a better look to be had at many other things. It is like the facts about the origin of the "Full (English etc.) Breakfast" (pork industry PR), the promotion of bookshelves in new houses by the book-publishing industry, etc. etc. etc. My source for the electricity info is Nick Cohen's "Off- Grid" book. Unfortunately I don't have it to hand, but he gives proper sources. I could go on about printers and phones, but won't, because your exclamatory reference to testicles did not have the merit of making clear what it is that you disagree with. Perhaps it is only the comparison?
It's a very valid point, well and amusingly made, however I'd be amazed if they re-piped the two pieces of equipment for just £150 !
My only point is that these days it pays to be cautious and that elderly people are *terrified* of calling services out for fear of ending up with enormous bills. It's sad that even British Gas are regarded with such suspicion and if you can find someone local with a good reputation, then that is the way to go.
So did he quote her for the work? Or suggest that she contacts his company for a quote?
May have. AIUI, the emergency phoneline is there to stop a gas leak. I rang it for a gas leak. Within a couple of hours they street was swarming with gas men and a bleeding great big hole :-)
It's a "make safe" service, not a fix problem service. I don't think the guy that comes to "make safe" sells the repair job - they just expect you to find a plumber to sort that.
I've a vague memory that transco (or whatever they are now - the people who capped the meter) pulled out of the gassafe scheme a while back.
I might have dreamt this - or it might have been a threat. I'd be amazed if you ring the emergency number and get sent someone who isn't allowed to work on gas...
1 - Confirm the wiring can handle a 10A load continually, ie, it is not rotted rubber.
2 - Buy a portable 2kW industrial fan heater (yellow) on Ebay for about =A335. They use oven sheathed elements, thermostat works, IPx4 splash rated, not quiet however. Cost about 20p/hr to run vs 10p for gas fire at similar output.
3 - Buy a fixed 1.5kW convective heater to mount on a wall, can not be knocked over, silent. Same cost, slower warmup.
Second, do not reconnect the gas, but many causes
- Gas safety line is National Grid. If they disconnect, you do not reconnect, full stop.
- Gas fires are often supplied by a Gas Restrictor (chrome elbow with slotted screw) which use a washer to seal which can rot, disintegrate, be the wrong type or size. Any gas work turning the screw off/on can easily cause it to fail creating a leak which varies with temperature and rate of change of temperature (from experience).
- Gas fires often have a bottom entry with elbow, over years the seal can be poor (white plumbing tape).
- Gas fires have a gas valve, these can go stiff & leak over time requiring dupont c*ck grease.
- Copper piping involves joints and over the years these can degrade particularly through walls, and suddenly disintegrate if moved. Lead piping actually does not, although if festooned over time any movement can cause problems (crystallisation, failure).
Copper pipe can corrode out of sight with only a little excess moisture, even if denso gas tape wrapped (now banned). A pipe passing through a wall with quarry tiles, a bit of rising damp from North facing, can be attacked by the mortar (particularly if black or pointed in with cement). I am not sure if de-zincification of fittings can occur, but it is possible out of sight in damp underfloor conditions.
You are allowed a small gas leak (in terms of pressure drop over time limit) as long as there is no smell. If there is a smell then the rule is disconnect. That does not mean you should tolerate a gas leak, but realise out of all the gas fitting work we had done from 1970 it was all the later work which leaked and not the original piping. Ironic. All the recent transco work was condemned as "sub-standard whilst trying to follow the intent of gas regulations", ie, someone used the right tools, the right idea, but workmanship fell short because they did not understand what they were doing or why.
If there are multiple appliances in the house it is possible to disconnect the relevant gas fire and see if the remaining pipework passes. Realise all appliances should have a gas-c*ck, BG were notorious for never fitting them because the rule about leaks was stricter if all appliances could be isolated thus testing pipework only.
Wise to be cautious, but there is no reason for her to sit in the cold. It is very expensive to heat solely by electric, but not outrageous. For example basic heating to 16oC then a) blanket wrap or b) heated overblanket is easy to arrange. You should have backup electric heating, I prefer that to be wall mounted in one "survival room" so reliable, not knocked over and decent (electronic) thermostat. Easy enough to plug into an electric energy monitor if paranoid about the units and set aside money accordingly.
Your suggestion that what transpired was in any way like the marketing practices of inkjet manufacturers etc.
You could, but as I explained in some detail before, none of it would have any relevance to this case. Transco/National Grid are responsible for the distribution network up to but not including the customers premises. If you invite them to check for a leak, and it turns out their bit is fine, but there is a fault in your pipework, then they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can't fix it for you, and they can't leave it in an unsafe position.
So there seems little point moaning about it or coming up with some conspiracy theory that this is some form of scam to relieve poor pensioners of their money.
Well the devil is obviously in the detail - i.e. how far each is from the meter, the complexity of the route, and the gas rate demands of each (and hence pipe diameters). Its the type of job that ought to be doable in half a day in many cases though.
Agreed, and BG are often the worst of the bunch in this respect.
I'm curious. This is getting deeply sad. Must your mother suffer from _your_ phobias, wreakless misunderstandings or your political agenda taking precedence over a very uncomplicated matter of her own safety? Where does your sister stand in all this?
If he just turn of a tap then you can turn it back on.
If he disconnected the pipe and sealed the supply end with a cap then you would be committing an offence to reconnect it even though he may not have been qualified to do the disconnection.
I should contact Gas Safe about this guy. Any authorised person would be only too happy to show his credentials and give his name. They pay a lot of money for certification.
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