I recently made a post on the Live/Neutral crossed wiring I found on a kitchen socket. I am awaiting on a socket tester before I carry on to correct the socket if need be.
Today I was looking at another socket which has it's own seperate circuit back to the fusebox and is also located in the kitchen but on the opposite side. The earth wire doesn't go back to the fusebox but to a copper pipe. I followed the pipe and found another earth connector further along where the earth wire connects to another socket. This socket belongs to a 2nd circuit which has an earth cable going back to the fusebox.
My question is, should each circuit have an earth cable go back to the consumer fusebox or can it be done like above?
That sounds rather odd. Yes, earths would normally be provided as part of the cable feeding that circuit in a domestic setup.
Do you mean that the cable feeding that socket is *not* twin+earth or do you mean it is twin+earth but for some bizarre reason the earth core is not used?
The wire going to the pipe is probably intended to be bonding. It must not be the primary means of earthing a socket[1]. A reason why that would be bad:
Suppose that someone replaces a bit of pipe upstream of your earth bond with plastic pipe. Your earth is now gone. Now your appliance plugged in that socket develops a fault - bing, 240V on the remaining copper pipe, sink etc.
So you're in a worse position than if you had no earth at all.
That's just one of a million reasons it's bad.
Are you sure that there isn't another earth wire in there from the cable?
I would agree with Lurch so some extent - it sounds like your house has a few oddities which may not be very safe. I would recommend at least having an inspection done (proper one, with earth/insulation/RCD tests). That will also pick up some things that you can't see by eye.
Try your electricity supply company - I used Seeboard for one such test + cert when I sold my flat. 18 months ago, about 120 quid or so.
Tim
[1] Although the Seeboard appointed inspector did note in the exceptions box that I hadn't got full 16th edition compliance (well, I wouldn't, flat was built to the 15th) in that one lighting pull switch, all plastic, did not have an earth present. He suggested I bonded one to the nearby water pipe. Needless to say I didn't bother.
Tim S wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@dionic.net:
Thanks for all your responses. I'm astounded to say the least. My property is a 1930's council block with surface wiring throughout. The wiring itself is loose - loose being strands of 2.5mm black + red + yellow/green cables running through surface conduit. Nothing in white sheathing.
What I have is a black and red cable running from the socket to the fusebox and then the earth cable on its own connecting to the copper pipe (bonding). This is a radial circuit and not ring.
I am strongly thinking of rewiring this keeping it radial and run an earth back to the fusebox.
I own the property so getting the local authority contractors back to rectify it would be difficult.
Others have noted the dangers with your existing wiring. One additional point. It is safety ground - not earth ground
- that connects a wall receptacle to breaker box. A fundamental difference between the two grounds is that safety ground must connect back to breaker box to trip a circuit breaker. Pipes are not considered safe enough nor are intended to perform that function. Dumping electricity into pipes is considered dangerous especially to a person in the tub.
Earth ground is a connection between the central point of that safety ground system and earth. Connecting a wall receptacle to earth ground does not provide the necessary human protection that safety ground must provide.
Keep do> I recently made a post on the Live/Neutral crossed wiring I found on a
More of an "industrial" style of installation. Nothing wrong with that in itself.
Ah. Metal conduit by any chance? It's not impossible that the earth could have been provisioned via the conduit, in which case you *might* be OK,
*provided* the stuff is still good.
That electrical test mentioned would measure that.
These days, metal conduit is usually the heavy thick wall stuff, with threaded screw joints to ensure solid connectivity.
The other (old) thin-wall push-fit stuff is difficult to maintain an earth on (let alone through). I don't think trying to reuse thin wall conduit would be permissable (never get a consistent earth on it), thick wall might be useable but shouldn't be rusty (damage cables) and needs to able to maintain a good earth for it's own benefit.
As an unqualified DIYer myself, I would recommend a few things (mostly being cautious):
1) Contract out what you don't feel 100% confident with - it's no great shame.
2) With what's left, I strongly recommend these books:
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IEE Wiring regs (latest, brown cover, don't be cheap and buy an out of date one off ebay)
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Electricians Guide to IEE Regs by John Whitfield
The latter is excellent - examples of typical circuits, calculations etc. Well worth it.
If you rewire, put 200 quid or so aside up front and promise yourself that you will have an inspection done when you finish. If you followed Part P then you're going to be inspected anyway. Installation inspections are quite fussy (but no more than they should be) so it's something to aspire to, to have one's work passed without comment.
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