Domestic Combined Heat and Power

In this months IEE review there is an interesting article on small scale CHP for domestic installation in the UK. There are some links there to people like www.whispergen.com , and some corroborating papers suggesting 30% reduction in domestic energy bills ! I want some. Does anyone else have any detailed knowledge of the price of such things ?
Steve
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Is this review on-line?

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IMM wrote:

To my superlative surprise, <http://www.iee.org/OnComms/sector/download.cfm?ID "DDEBBB-F303-4B63-858A7B711D6E40B8> Hope its of interest.
Steve
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711D6E40B8>
Thanks. Told me nothing new. Whispergen has been around quite a time selling marine applications CHP units. They are only a samll NZ company. They kust have found a manufactrer to produce the unit in bulk. MicroGen have been promoting their unit for about a year now.
These are not full CHP units. They are to supplement electricity usage taking and feeding the grid. There running costs will depend on what the electricity supplier will buy back power from you. To kick start take up it must be a 1:1 ratio. The take up of these units is the biggest hurdle. As the article points out, it is ignorance by installers that will be a large hurdle. They haven't even accepted condensing boilers yet, thinking they are complex.
Full CHP which can be installed in a remote off-the-grid house is different in that most use diesel units running on heating oil. These can be very expensive to run if not on full load. Running a genny just for lights and a TV is expensive as a lot of energy is wasted. You need to have a large thermal store to store the heat that would otherwise be wasted, and it must be turned off at night with battery LV lights and water pump used.
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It's more like the wasted heat from generating electricity is used to heat the water. This means that even, say, a 50% efficiency generating electricity doesn't matter, as (a) gas is a quarter of the price of electricity and (b) the waste from this heats up your water cylinder anyway (usually supplemented by a standard burner as well). It's a win-win situation.
Unfortunately, I can't install it now myself, as I never install first generation products, and it seems to be in zeroth generation at the moment. I've plumped for the Bosch Greenstar 28HE instead.
Christian.
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-0 generation. The WhisperGen has been around for a while in different forms.

The first is available later this year, the MicroGen in Spring. The MicroGen is made by Rinnai in Japan, who make some excellent quality kit, so worth going for even being first generation. The MicroGen is being tested by about 50 homes, so should be sorted when available.
The MicroGen claims 25% more "total" energy efficiency than a current condensing boilers. Quite a hype. The recent white energy paper is indicating that non-condensing boilers will be ruled out as they are not efficient enough. This creates a problem in fitting boilers in flats and existing old houses converted to flats. The exhaust plume can be a hell of a nuisance to neighbours. I'm not sure if the Whispergen CHP boiler gives off an exhaust plume, but it is sradrad washing machine sized. The wall mounted MicroGen can certainly be de-plumed with a design re-jig, and I'm sure still be with the minimum SEDBUK energy rating of the new white paper.
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Tony Bryer wrote:

It may be a very good way to heat your house _whilst_ generating electricty (because you need to). I doubt it is a better way of to heat your house than a condensing boiler with correct installation and controls.
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Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
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Rick Hughes

25% more efficient overall in energy. Modulates and must be better. You don't "need" to generate electricity. You actually sell the surplus back to the utility company.
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