Chasing computer wiring (Cat-5) into plaster over brick wall

[Dave Liquorice]

Don't forget the compenstation, but be aware that if you take the free divert offer you effectively remove that.

It does seems like a good time to get "Total Care", 24/7 fault repairs, someone working on it inside 4hrs. When I spoke to the last engineer I saw fixing the ISDN here I asked if the "someone working on it inside 4hrs" meant that if the fault was underground that would be reported and you'd just join the queue, all be it at the top to be fixed in normal working hours. The answer was no, they would call some out to work on it any time of the day/night, 365 days a year.

Cost? Around =A311.64/qtr inc VAT.

... and I have a sneaky suspicion they'll simply refuse me isdn

Assuming you are within range of the exchange for ISDN (approx 6km as the cable flies) I think they would have a damn good try at providing it.

Short/medium termisium profit margins and the licence system. You have to make a profit within the licence period incase you don't get the licenec next time.

There are an awful lot of base stations and the don't come cheap, even compared to digging a trench and putting in a cable. Also remember that apart from new build most of the country was wired up donkeys years ago and when they put in a cable they put in substantial over capacity. Ordinary drop wires where 1 pair (the really old figure of 8 stuff), 3 pair now and I've heard of 6 pair being laid underground as standard to new single domestic properties.

[Dave Plowman]

Properly installed domestic wiring is very unlikely to suffer damage. I

*know* some have suffered rodent damage, but it's pretty rare. Overhead wiring is something else - but then it's done like that for cheapness, not reliability.

Also, wonder why the mobile phone companies link to their base stations with cables if RF has such advantages?

Supply and demand. The average punter expects to pay more for mobile running costs. That and the huge sums paid out for licences, and the ever hopeful introduction of new 'improved' technology that they pray we'll pay for.

[Owain]

"Simon Avery" wrote | Engineer switched me to the last working copper pair in the bundle | - next time it goes I'm out for ages, and I have a sneaky suspicion | they'll simply refuse me isdn access rather than replace the cable, | since a few pops and whistles on analogue is neither here nor there.

If the last working copper pair in the bundle goes, they'll probably DACS your line onto a neighbours. This will limit you (and them) to 33.6 modem speed, which ironically might be a better connection.

ISDN, being digital and also running on a higher line voltage (100V rather than 50V I think), should be more robust over some types of cable fault.

Owain

[Simon Avery]

Hello Dave

I thought that this had recently been withdrawn on residential lines unless it gets something silly? (I could ask my telecomms lawyer, but she's asleep atm :) )

Thanks, this is indeed interesting and looks like it could well be worthwhile. Getting rather fed up with being fobbed off, thanks again.

I already have it, despite being a nadge over 7km according to a pingtest. I guess this is why it's proving temperamental - six failures in three years; the slightest fault that would be unnoticable on a PSTN line dumps me completely.

But the major players are pretty much guaranteed a licence. Unless they do something absurdly silly, Oftel wouldn't appreciate the abuse they'd receive if several hundred thousand subscribers suddenly had to search for a new provider.

Don't know the costs, but I'd be awfully surprised if that was the case. One transmitter can serve several square miles of subscribers and can be erected and connected VERY fast (From purchase to signal in a week or less) - compare that to having to prepwire, concentrators, wayleaves, numerous visits to every house so they're in when they said they would be.

[Simon Avery]

Hello Dave

I think there's also an element of "It's always been done that way". RF is still in its infancy as a high bandwidth solution, imo. What we've got now /works/, but not as well as it'll work in ten years time.

They do? I understood that they also used microwave links in LOS situations. I don't recall any major cabling works going on when they erected one nearby, other than putting in power - though I suppose they could've run in comms at the same time. It certainly has two microwave dishes on it, but that might be rented out to someone else.

I think the 3G fiasco isn't going to be repeated, caused serious financial problems within the sector. The new stuff, well, doesn't really appeal to me - unless I can use it as alternative high bandwidth internet access when my main link goes down. Like the majority, I want my phone to be a phone, not a camera or PDA. That's useful for some folks, but not for me.

[David W.E. Roberts]

Jumping it at the top of the thread again :-) On the subject of 'wired' vs. 'wireless'.

Nobody so far seems to have mentioned DECT phones. I would be interested in the case that 'plug in the wall' phones are 'always better' that DECT phones.

To me the argument is very similar - do you want to run phone extensions to every room then have to stand by the socket, or would you like to take your phone everywhere with you (including in the garden and perhaps even next door).

Not quite the same because extra handsets cut into the maximum REN on the line, but for useability the comparison is pretty close.

Cheers Dave R

[Simon Avery]

Hello Owain

Nah. I still have a DACS unit in the loft from their first attempt, since then they had no spare pairs at all. (And it throttles at

28.8kbps, unable to connect at 33.6 - same at a previous house when I had it) That was replaced by HH, which provides two lines over one pair.

What I /think/ they're doing is swapping my pair with my neighbours (who are all PSTN) so they get the crap ones but don't notice, and I get the best pair for my HH. Either that or there's some very odd wiring gone on. (3km from village concentrator, last half has been recabled this year, only me and my two neighbours on the last km)

Still, I'm providing a service to them. Lots of their engineers are experiencing a lovely little valley they'd otherwise never get to see. :)

[Dave Liquorice]

They may well have changed the rules again. At one time residential compenstation was 1 months rental per day of service loss after the end of the next normal working day that the fault was reported or something very similar. They then brought in the free divert and reduced the compensation to minimal or non-existant if you took the free divert. If the divert was to a mobile I think you got/get around a fiver to pay for out going calls/voice mail pickup etc.

That failure rate is about the level my ISDN line is running at, we are 3.5km from the exchange. Most of the faults are with the bit of damp string under the ground. Last time they swapped the pairs for the POTS and ISDN lines, guess which one fails now...

Occasionally a "reset" sent by the 154 (your ISDN is classed as Business isn't it?) faults operator would sort mine out.

Existing customer base would be very valuable to the incoming licence holder. As far as the user is concerned it would be a seamless transfer, things might change after transfer with tarrifs etc but users would not be simply dumped.

For a new player trying to provide "the last mile" yes. Which is why no one has done it, they all rent "the last mile" from BT who, generally speaking, has wire almost everywhere.

[Dave Liquorice]

Lots? There are only two maybe three that come out this far. I'm getting to know them quite well...

[Bob Eager]

He probably just wanted to get it done! It's a bus route, feeding the railway station, in a smallish town. I know the day we moved in, we had trouble sleeping due to streetlights and no curtains. So he was probably OK.

[Andy Hall]

AIUI, standard ISDN2e lines are classified with business service (at the line rental they charge, I would hope so). Highway lines can be either residential or business.

Line cards locking up seems a perennial problem. At one time, one or other of my ISDN circuits would need a reset about once a month. More recently it hasn't been so bad so I assume they fixed or replaced them.

There are the cable TV operators, of course, but they seem to be genetically incapable of providing a reliable telecomms service especially to businesses.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Andy Hall]

I thought that you were above the clouds and had to have oxygen brought in... :-)

Do you not see the lights of Newcastle or Carlisle in the distance?

Is aurora visibility frequent where you are? I've seen them in Norway and Sweden quite often, but never in the UK.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Brian S Gray]

Sorry, I cannot agree with all above although I suspect that hard wired phones are more reliable. Dect phones can easily be used for in-house calls while the loudspeaker facility helps the hard of hearing - at the cost of everyone nearby hearing both sides of the conversation. Also, it is easy for the DECT phones to communicate with a matching base station which is an answerphone BUT in my experience they stop making/selling matching answerphones/DECT phones after a relatively short period (3/4 years for Philips?). And I certainly find a DECT phone useful when someone rings me when I am up in the loft or up a ladder outside.

[Peter Parry]

That will make no practical difference.

Others experience might be different. Certainly I can detect no difference in the sound quality or volume between my DECT and normal phones. However some DECT phones are smaller than conventional ones and positioning them is (as with mobile phones) more critical than with most wired phones. Some Phillips DECT phones do appear to have low volume levels (but so do some wired phones).

There are (rare) DECT phones designed for hearing aid users. Alternatively you can use one of the many DECT phones with a headset socket and something like the Plantronics M130 headset which works with induction loop hearing aids.

No, DECT operates on the 1880-1900 MHz frequency band. Wireless network, video senders etc work mainly at 2400MHz. Alarms use a number of frequencies mainly in the 400 and 800MHz region.

Mine happily work to 70m, but interference is never likely to be a problem. DECT uses Time Division Multiple Access and has 10 available carriers. There are 24 time slots available (12 in each direction) within each 10ms frame. DECT uses dynamic channel selection to minimise interference. Channel assignment is done by finding the lest interfered channel and channel reassignment can take place during a call. Effectively 120 dynamically allocated duplex channels are available to any DECT device. This gives a potential traffic density of about 10000 users per km 2 without the need for frequency planning.

DECT phones are quite low power, mine usually go all day off the charge cradle and with several hours use a day battery life is never an issue. 10 hours talk or 120 hours standby are fairly typical. Finding the phone sometimes is an issue :-) they all migrate to one place which is always the other end of the building from where you are when the phone rings.

[Simon Avery]

Hello Dave

Yeah, apart from one old guy who really knew the system well[1] and visited us twice, we've never had the same guy again.

[Bob Eager]

Probably not from East Kent...!

[Dave Liquorice]

Pretty well where this morning hill fog hanging down in the valley but extending a just above us.

We are only at 1400' not 14,000.

Not directly. B-) Depending on conditions there can be quite a glow to the East from Newcastle, 40 miles away, 20 to 30 degrees wide but keeping fairly low to the horizon. Not normally aware of Carlisle (20 miles) but did see that glow the other night.

Given a good clear night and no moon the viewing is pretty good, Milky Way is just there you don't have to look for it. One day I may well get a small telescope, now if the kids get interested I have hook to hang the purchase on... Trouble is at 1400', under clear dark skies, it gets pretty nippy. Summer is not a good time, it never gets really dark.

Been here since Jan 99, seen 3 maybe 4 displays. Cloud is the big killer, I keep an eye on the various Aurora sites and know when the activity is high enough that I should be able to see something if the piggin cloud wasn't there. Probably missed an equal number of clouded out displays. B-(

Going to a place to observe the Aurora under dark skies is on the list of "things I must do" along with "visit an erupting volcano", "storm chasing in the Mid West US" etc

[Andy Hall]

If you like unusual experiences you might like to look at

recommend it and have seen brilliant aurora displays there.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes, and use DECT as a last resort .

[Dave Liquorice]

I'd forgotten about that place. Yes, that would be a a two birds with one stone trip with a bit of luck.