Boiler not lighting

Just an update. Since fitting the new capacitor the boiler has been going into lockout every couple of days although it works perfectly otherwise. It usually starts again on the reset button, just maybe once or twice I've had to switch it off at the wall and try again like just now which prompts this message.

Now the only thing I didn't get round to doing after the repair was to reseal the burner unit to the boiler flange properly. There was silicone sealant there to start with rather than the pukka gasket and I've still got to pull it apart again and apply new silicone.

So could a bit of a leak there be triggering the lockouts and if so why? What part of the control system could recognise that leak?

If it's unlikely to be that what else do I check seeing as it has never gone into lockout before the capacitor failure and I haven't messed around with anything else as far as I can tell?

Reply to
Dave Baker
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I very much doubt the burner would lockout because the mounting flange is n ot sealed. Check the photocell is not showing signs of sooting or heat dama ge. Also check your electrodes and nozzle head are not sooted. ANY leakage of fuel from the hydraulic ram will cause droplets of fuel to b e drawn into the airstream and cause sooty burning. Check around the oilpump for leakage of fuel. One failure mode is leakage a t the pump drive shaft seal. This will destroy the lubrication of the pump end motor shaft bearing leading to the bearing sometimes sticking when star ting but after a reset sometimes it will start. Leakage of the shaft seal w ill require pump replacement. Leakage of the hydraulic ram will require ram replacement. Motor bearings are replaceable with ease. Keep us posted

Reply to
johnjessop46

It's died again now and going into reset. I think it is a bearing actually. The motor is now noisy and I suspect the new capacitor I bought just masked the problem for a bit. Time for a full stripdown before I freeze. I'll let you know what I find.

Reply to
Dave Baker

Well what a kerfuffle. I just couldn't be arsed to strip it all down for a while so I've been managing with an electric fan heater to keep the kitchen warm and the immersion for hot water since my last post of the 4th. However with ice on the ground outside now I launched into a proper stripdown of the burner today.

I turned the oil supply off at the tank first as the stop c*ck in the boiler seems to be a bit leaky when it's closed and then ripped the burner out. Oil and electrical connections undone and then got the burner onto the workbench. I got the fan shroud and air flap plunger off at one end and had a look to see how freely the motor turned. There was a graunchy stiction once every revolution which didn't feel good so I pulled the oil pump off at the other end. The electric motor then turned completely freely.

I pulled the pump apart and it was full of metal swarf and sticky. It looked like there was a bearing at one end but after knocking the shaft out with a hammer it's just an oil seal and the shaft runs directly in the housing. I cleaned it all up in the parts cleaner in the workshop and finally found the cause of the problem. The little 2mm thick metal drive key that's supposed to lock the shaft to the primary pump gear had worn away from 9.5mm long down to 8mm long and was just rotating with the shaft although it seemed to lock intermittently with the gear which is what has been keeping the pump going until now. The graunching noises had been this key wearing away against the pump gear.

With all the parts cleaned and a bit of deburring and polishing with scotchbrite everything rotated smoothly but how to get it working again? I raked round the workshop for some hardened steel exactly 2mm thick but the best I could find was an ordinary 1.9mm mild steel washer in my nut and bolt drawer. I cut off a slice of that with a thin disk in the angle grinder and then holding that in mole grips and with infinite care against the bench grinder wheel I shaped a new drive key 9.5mm x 2.8mm x 1.9mm thick.

Back together again and no graunchy noises but also no ignition. I started pulling my hair out and then pulled the oil pump to bits again. I could see nothing wrong but after assembling it all again still no ignition and no pressure to open the air flap. An hour later on the umpteenth attempt it fired up. I reckon the one thing I hadn't done was bleed the pump after rebuilding it but finally it worked the air out itself and pressure is restored. The radiators are just coming up to temperature again for the first time in a week and I couldn't be happier if I'd just invented the car engine that runs on tap water. There's nowt quite so satisfying as fixing something from scratch and making the new part yourself into the bargain. I'm not sure how long a mild steel key will last but at least I now know how to fix it again.

Reply to
Dave Baker

Your a braver man than I Gunga Din. Mind you if you aren't having to charge labour its an advantage. I suggest you invest in a replacement pump plus the plastic drive coupling so you can take effective action if it fails on Christmas Eve. You may als o like to consider a 0 - 150 psi oil pressure gauge so you can set up the b urner. It might be useful to check the oil pressure of the existing pump so you have a reference point. :)

Reply to
johnjessop46

ump delivers pressure. It and the flap should be dry. If it weeps droplets of oil are sucked into the air intake and burn on the nozzle head, sooting it up. There are two length variants on the ram so make sure you get the ri ght size replacement.

(common fault 4 microfarad) Alternatively you might have an oil leak from t he pump shaft. This washes the grease out of the pump end motor bearing and the motor/pump get "lumpy" to turn, often refusing to start turning. The b earing is a 6202 C3 shielded version.

d be so the control goes straight to false light lockout without trying to start. You can check this by removing the photocell and pressing the reset.

boilers in here a few years ago. A search might throw it up.

I just did a google search and found nothing. If you have a copy somewhere we could put it on the wiki, if you're ok with that.

formatting link

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

Sounds great to me - and, if possible, a dummy guide to oil boilers i.e. what all the bits look like, how they interconnect and what they actually do.

Tangent alert. I have posted several times, over several years, about our Worcester oil boiler which cuts out now and again. Much servicing, testing, replacement parts did nothing. Eventually I realised the cutting out was invariably after the tank had been refilled, suggesting water in the bottom of the tank was being disturbed when oil was pumped in. I bought a tube of goo to test the water theory but didn't get around to using it. We recently changed supplier, with the second delivery being six days ago, and the boiler did not cut out after either delivery (fingers crossed!). This suggests that the new supplier pumps at a lower pressure, causing less disturbance to the oil/water in the tank. Comments?

Reply to
News

That could be a bit difficult as the laptop I had at the time is defunct and I have also changed ISP. If I can find some spare time I will have a go at writing another epistle.

Reply to
johnjessop46

I just did a google group search and found the old post I put up in 2004 on oil boiler servicing. Here it is cut and pasted.

There are a number of variants with minor variations but assuming you are asking about a reasonably new boiler with a pressure jet burner try the following.

Have available a vacuum cleaner with hose attachments, A long stiff bristle d flue brush, a soft straight brush such as a clean 1" paint brush, Screwdrivers, spanners, allen keys, scraper, replacement nozzle, replacemen t filter element and joint, every three/four years a new flexible oil hose, combustion analyser kit preferably Briggon or Fyrite chemical type as oil fumes tend to poison oxygen cells in electronic analysers.

Switch off and allow to cool unless you like working with burnt fingers.

Ensure isolation of the boiler from the power supply. time clocks and thermostats can and do switch on while you are working

Shut the oil service valve which should be local to the boiler.

Put down a good sizeable  dust sheet

Remove the casing door and if a top entry flueway type the lid also, thus revealing the boiler shell and burner.

Remove the flueway access door to reveal the flueways and removable baffles (retarders)

Judge the amount of soot/dust within and use vacuum cleaner as required, removing the retarders in turn and remembering the position and orientation of them for ultimate replacement. Once all retarders are out brush or scrap e the interior of the heat exchanger clean. Loose dust or soot can slow the rate of transfer of heat from the flue gases into the waterways and reduce the efficiency significantly, costing you money and passing your hard earne d heat out into the open air.

When you are satisfied the retarders and the chamber interior is clean locate the securing nut(s) or clamping screws which hold the burner in plac e and withdraw it from the boiler. There are a number of basic types of pressure jet burner and bear in mind that yours may be different in some respects from what I describe here. If I knew what you actually had it woul d be easier but I describe here the procedure for a Riello burner which has a sequence control/ignition (grey) box mounted on top of the burner unit. As viewed from the rear (non firing end), on the left hand side is the oil pum p with one or occasionally two oil hoses (suction and excess return pipes). You will see a dark coloured protruding screw with a slotted end. DO NOT ALTER THIS SCREW it is the oil pressure setting screw and you will have to set up the whole burner from scratch if you do. Below the setting screw is a hexagonal headed plug which is a pressure test point. Checking of the oil pressure on a satisfactorily running boiler is not normally neccessary unless you are commissioning the unit or fitting a replacement pump in which case it should be used to set the pressure to manufacturers specification.     On the right hand side you will see the fan casing and on some vari ants a hydraulic ram operating a flap which closes off the air intake when the burner is not running. Early (long ram) models used a screw and locknut on the ram to set the open position as an air inlet adjustment, later models used a shorter ram with fixed travel and a rotating mask to adjust the air. Both of these types of adjuster should not be moved unless you have reason to do so. Once set they should remain constant.     Remove the fan casing, being careful not to damage the oil line to the ram if one is present and expose the fan. Use a brush and possibly a small scraper such as a screwdriver (carefully) blade to clean off the fan blades . A significant amount of fluff and dust can often be found here. Brush clean the fan casing and inlet airway then refit the casing to protect the fan.     Turn to the front (flame end) of the burner and locate the screws w hich hold the blast tube in place. Undo these and draw the blast tube off the front of the burner to reveal the nozzle, electrodes and mount. The elctrod e position with relation to the front of the nozzle should be carefully noted for accurate replacement. Locate the electrode securing screw and loosen it to withdraw the electrode mounting (porcelain) block. Clean the elctrodes asembly (it should look like new when you have finished) check its gap (about three to four mm) and put safe to one side. Clean away any dust, soo t or other junk from within the space but do not damage the face of the photocell which is at the rear of the chamber     With two spanners undo the nozzle and withdraw it. Stamped on the f lats are details of the size (0.50 USGPH or similar info), spray angle (60 or 80 degrees usually) and spray pattern code (S, H, W etc) Replace with new nozzle of same spec.     Reassemble taking care to ensure the electrode clearance(s) are as you found them, refit the blast tube and turn to the grey box. On the left hand side is a clamping screw which should be loosened and the box withdrawn (unplugged) from its seat. The photocell is mounted (plugged in) to the front of this box and it should be cleaned with a soft brush. Check for loose wires in the fixed base of the grey unit and replace it.     Replace the burner into the boiler and refit the mounting screw/nut . Turn on the oil service velve and check very carefully for leaks in the oil hoses. These are rubber under the braid and they become brittle. The movement associated with servicing is often enough to crack the rubber and start a leak which is why they should be replaced regularly.     Go out to the oil tank and locate the oil filter. Turn off the tank valve (and sight gauge tube if fitted) and remove the filter. Run a little oil through into a clear jar and inspect for water/dirt in the tank Clean i f of the strainer type or replace if a paper element. Refit and turn oil back on. Vent or purge the air from the filter bowl. If there is a drain valve a t the back of the tank run a little into the jar and check for water. Decant any water present off. Inspect the tank for corrosion     Go back inside replace/restore all inner parts and casing doors and power up the unit. Run on test and when warmed up draw from the sampling point a smoke sample (should be 0 or 1 on Baccarach scale). Draw a sample o f flue gases from the sample point into the analyser and check CO2 levels (depending on boiler but expect between 9 and 12 %) If all OK put temperature probe into sample hole and take flue gas temperature having allowed to stabilise. New boilers with high eficiency will show around 200 degrees C, older ones could be anywhere up to 450 which gives an idea of ho w much heat they wasted!     If readings are not satisfactory you may need to tweak the air sett ing slightly but do not make any big adjustments and mark where you started from. When satisfied record figures and comments preferably on a history card you keep with the boiler     Refit sample plug and outer casing, wash hands and put kettle on.

HTH

John

Reply to
johnjessop46

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