?

Handbrake and or switch the engine off.

The message from The Natural Philosopher contains these words:

Neither of which come easily to mind in an emergency and in my experience at least would not have had time to work. If the snow had been older or wetter it might have been a different story.

In the circumstances I had in mind the majority of braking force comes from the build-up of snow in front of locked wheels with all 4 wheels needed to provide any retardation. The handbrake would not be enough and turning the engine off cuts power steering as well as ABS and, depending on the car and how far the key is turned, wipers as well, which puts the driver in a worse position than not having ABS in the first place.

In order to act like that in an emergency the driver needs to be prepared before hand and, preferably have practised as well. But that practise would be a catch 22 situation. Putting driver and car in danger even if the requisite steep snow covered hill could be found to practise on free from the possibility of any other traffic.

Probably easier to pull the fuse so the ABS doesn't work. ;-)

Didn't you say you needed to brake to test the surface conditions? Many cars with power steering lack feel. You can feel what the road surface is like in mine most of the time.

The message from "dennis@home" contains these words:

Yes but hardly an instant solution and I have become too used to ABS over the last 20 odd years to want to be without it in more general slippery conditions.

You do know that ABS was invented because people couldn't drive properly. ABS actually increases the stopping distance over that which a good driver can achieve in many circumstances and never reduces it. I don't remember any race or rally cars with ABS. ;-)

The message from "dennis@home" contains these words:

I think ABS was invented to make driving easier, if inventing is the right word to use. It is after all only a mechanical version of cadence braking. While it is theoretically possible to out brake ABS I am not convinced it is a practical proposition. There is no feedback from the brake pedal to point to maximum grip. Don't press hard enough and you won't get maximum retardation. Press too hard and you are into cadence braking and once there I would put my money on the mechanical system. The main advantage of cadence braking, like ABS, it to maintain some semblance of steerage.

I wouldn't know but I would have thought it would at least have been tried.

==================================== Still flogging a dead horse I see. You obviously need more reminders of the stupid and dangerous driving of which you're so proud.

Remember those poor unfortunate 'overtakees' whom you imagined to be baulking you? Remember how they only managed to make it to the 'next serious bend'? You saw 'em off', didn't you?

What were your tactics - flashing headlights, tailgating or just a simple carve-up on a bend? I wonder how many innocent people you've endangered over the years to prove how stupidly dangerous you can be.

You keep threatening me with your killfile - much the same tactics you employ to try to frighten innocent road users. Keep on threatening. Idiots like you never learn until they've killed someone.

Cic.

The message from Cicero contains these words:

snip

My apologies if I have more than one response to this message. I was still editing my original contribution when my software took it upon itself to go on-line. I think the first response was lost in the process but I could be wrong. This second attempt is probably significantly different to the first.

Still up for nothing more substantial than telling lies so no change there.

I have asked you several times to justify your original attack on me but you have so far steadfastly refused to do so preferring instead to continue your smear campaign.

It is a fact of life that all too many 'overtakees' go out of their way to obstruct overtakers. That you don't admit it is clear evidence that you are either lying or remarkably unobservant. Even if you trundle along in convoy without attempting a single overtaking manoeuvre the chances are the driver in front would demonstrate for you had you but the nous to notice. And don't forget "serious bend" is a product of your over active imagination.

And to think you accused me of having a vivid imagination. Get real. All you are doing with these lies is destroying what little remains of your reputation.

As I have consistently said my kill file awaits once you have justified your original attack on me. That you have so far resolutely steered clear of attempting that strongly suggests that even you accept that that is an impossible dream.

So come on, put up or shut up. Your credibility is fast disappearing.

The message from Cicero contains these words:

You do do a very good line in non sequiturs. Why don't you grasp the nettle for just once in your life and actually answer the question?

Threats, what threats? Kill files are no more than a gesture of contempt to someone who just isn't worth bothering with.

Your imagination is beginning to run out of steam. Are you so incapable of rational thought that you think your childish ranting impresses anyone other than yourself?

================================ Still plugging away? You're hooked by your own stupidity. It's all,

"Killfile, killfile, killfile". Is it a promise, or is it a threat? No, it's just a damp squib from a silly and dangerous obsessive.

What do you think will happen to me when (or big IF) you get around to putting me in your silly killfile? Will I break out in sores and ulcers? Will I catch the plague? Will it have any effect at all other than to confirm how paranoid and petty you are?

When you offered your first bit of stupid and dangerous driving advice there was some prospect that you might learn something. All your subsequent twaddle has proved that you're incapable of understanding that all your super-abundant hot air changes nothing.

Cic.

The message from Cicero contains these words:

Still incapable of answering the question

The way you rabbit on about it one would think a killfile was a potent weapon rather than a means of filtering out the ramblings of a senile old man.

All I want is an answer to a simple question. All we get from you is lies and insults.

More obfuscation.

You could of course answer the question but that is a catch 22 situation so you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

As you remain unwilling (or unable) to answer the question I doubt very much whether I will have anything further to say on the subject. I leave it to your overheated imagination to decide whether or not you are in my kill file. Meanwhile perhaps you should ponder awhile on what your inability to justify your response to my initial contribution to this thread and your subsequent infantile behaviour have done to whatever reputation you had in this ng prior to that event.

==============================

I see I kept you up late again. How sad!

You've made nearly 40 posts containing reams of specious argument trying to conceal the truth about your dangerous driving. Your gung-ho attitude towards safe driving was apparent from your first post and your sneering comments about other safer drivers demonstrated that you don't even know why you're so dangerous. Nothing you've said in all your boring posts has done anything to disguise the fact that you set out to show your superiority. You failed miserably in that and you've spent the last week trying to claim that your comments were misunderstood.

You threatened me days ago with your silly little 'killfile'. You have no understanding of just how silly such an empty threat makes you look. Your threat was meaningless first time round and nothing is ever going to make it any more intimidating.

All those totally pointless posts demonstrate beyond any doubt your psychotic and obsessive nature and I'll give further proof of your instability. You will have to reply to this to ensure you have the last word and I will ignore you. You will be just an irrelevant little blip on the horizon.

And later you'll try to get revenge by creating a spurious identity so that you can snipe from the sidelines. You'll do that because that's how you think and because that's how you drive - dangerously obsessed.

Cic.