Your Opinions On "Smart Meters"

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in terms of energy savings, privacy, fire risk, and, most importantly, health ramifications. Thank You.
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Way Back Jack wrote:

The only purpose of smart meters for residential customers is to reduce the meter-reading costs of electric utilities.
The exhorbitant up-front cost of the meters themselves, the communications network and billing software will be paid for by customers in the form of additional surcharges.
All other aspects of smart meters represents a false economy, because residential customers don't use enough electricity (individually) to warrant the use of time-of-day billing, as opposed to large commercial, retail or industrial customers.
Residential customers don't consume enough electricity on an individual level such that any decision they make in changing (or time-shifting) their electricity usage will only affect their monthly bill by pennies or at most a few dollars. That level of expenditure is on par with other forms of discretionary spending (daily coffee, snack, etc) and people will not sacrifice their home comfort (using their air-conditioner less) if the savings are on par with pocket-change-per-day.
As for heath and safety issues related to smart meters - totally bullshit.
Your own cell phone, cordless phone, iSlave device (pad/phone/pod/tablet), laptop or home wifi network will easily emit far more EM radiation (and will also be closer to you) than your outside-mounted smart meter.
You should focus your efforts on the measurement accuracy of these meters, and the rights (or lack thereof) that consumers have to dispute bills generated by these meters.
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They may not warrant doing it, but utilities are doing it and offering different rates at different times of the day to residential customers. That is nothing new. Here in NJ the utility was doing that 50 years ago. The offered a substantially lower rate at night for water heaters.

And how would you know what rates all the utilities in the country are charging?

Maybe they won't, but then those that are using electricity at peak rates, will be paying for it. And those that can and will switch some of their demand to other hours will pay less.

Now that I agreee with.
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" snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net" wrote:

I'm not saying anything to the contrary of what you just said.
Yes, it's not warranted, yes they are doing it (anyways) and yes - they are charging different rates at different times of the day (if they didn't, they wouldn't have any basis or reason for implimenting smart meters now would they?).

Smart meters are new (in terms of the historical time-line of equipment and schemes used to measure residential electricity use which goes back decades).

I wasn't aware that NJ had time-of-use billing for residential customers 50 years ago.
Those meters must have had mechanical clocks back then (any time-of-use metering system needs to know the current time-of-day, and even date if week-end rates are in effect). How accurate were those clocks 50 years ago?

I would venture a guess that the difference in rates is minimal - in terms of the percentage of load that consumers can realistically be expected to time-shift.
The biggest factor that is under EASY control of home owners is always going to be their air conditioning temperature setting, and that is also going to be the last usage they are willing to sacrifice because it involves their own comfort level (how hot and sticky are you willing to be in your own home - if it means you'll save a measely $1 or $2 today, and again tommorrow, and again the next day, etc).
Every day, that $1 or $2 bargain they make with themselves is worth it. The fact that it might (or will) end up being $30 at the end of the month is irrelavent. That's if they even know that setting the temp. to 77f vs 74f is going to cost them an extra $1.24 today.

Just like everyone is still paying $4 a gallon for gas. People are not going to cheap-out on their thermostat setting and feel like shit in their own house to save a measely buck a day.

And the crock of the whole situation is that the meters cost anywhere from $500 to $1500 each, and over the lifespan of the meter it will probably not result in home-owner cutback in electricity usage to justify the cost of the meter in the first place.
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$1 a day invested for 5 years at 7% compounded interest is $2 148.
$1 a day invested for 25 years a 7% compounded interest is $23 624.
Hopefully somebody will doublecheck my math.
Invest that dollar a day in a tax shelter of course to maximize returns.
Some people don't care about $365 a year in simple savings and others do. Some people try to sacrifice and decide it's not worth it and others stick with it.
Your point about the air conditioning is what we do at home. We like our house cool at night and are willing to pay for it.
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But WHERE do you get 7% today??? 0.7% is more realistic.
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On 4/15/2012 5:47 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Good point: yes 7% is tought to find however:
Index funds and ETFs. Myself I only invest in index and dividend funds, even bond indexs funds instead of bonds themselves. TD has a CDN bond index fund that has average 6% a year for me and only .33% MER. Ishares Canada has a couple that do 7%. Minimum purchase is $25 if on a prepayment plan, otherwise $100.
You'd have a easier time getting 7%, if you just invest and forget for 20 years, in a broad market index. Now the 7% return per year factors in over time, best to strive for it over 10 years.
Otherwise pick a basket of well known dividend paying stocks and just do DRIPS. Get 4% yields and find the remaining 3% on share price increases, however this is really tough to do with $1 a day.
But your point is not lost on me. Yes 7% compounded return is tough to find these days. However if you pay that $1 per day against your outstanding mortgage principal then you get savings. If you have 250 000 mortgage principal amortized over 25 year, interest was 2.9% and paid an additional $7 a week from the first weekly payment you'd save $610.00 in interest over the life of the mortgage.
Again. I hope my math is right.
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Last year my 5 yearTD "index" fund of $5000 didn't make me a cent. The good part is it didn't loose me any either

3.35% is doable over 5 years with a guarantee, today, if you have 10,000 invested and are over 60. Whoopee!!!

It's almost impossible with $10,000 as one lump sum.

Mortgage? What's that??? I bought this house 30 years ago and have been mortgage free for about 15 years.

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Which TD fund? Most of my TFSA's RRSPS and my daughter's RESP are in TD e series funds. I usually get about 4 to 5% on the e-series CDN bond funds and I keep the Bond fund at about 15 to 20 percent of portfolios. The CDN Index e-series fund has been about 6.5% a year average for me since I started in 2004.
And I usually contribute $150 each a month to these accounts.
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Mine was a 5 year RSP index fund with a 0%minimum and 25% maximum yield limit. It is back in for a minimum 2% and maximum 20% for another 5 years.
If I had started with zero and put in money every week I would likely have done better due to averaging, but I put mine in just before the big drop. The guarantee only guarantees I cannot loose any of my principal over the term of the deposit. If the fund looses , say 50% and then gains 7% per year I'm still sitting at a net zero position
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

You can get around 6-7% dividend return on quite a few companies, many even 4 or 5 stars on S&P. Go down to 5% or so and picks up even more and that is with just a simple screen. 0.7% is hardly realistic either outside of a money market.
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I've been getting that in the (conservative) bond funds I have in my 401K. The money in the bank has been doing about .5%, though.
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Exactly. Until recently that was about $40K.

If there is an increase in price. That's why my 401K is in bonds, and has been since '04. The market is just too volatile and will be until Obummer gets the heave-ho.
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Since WWII, there has never been a 20 year period that had less than 7% average real return on the S&P. Including the one ending in 2011. Volatile now is small potatoes over long period of time and 401(k) for most of us are long period of time since life expectancy suggests we'll have around 25 years post retirement.
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Since I'll be 60 this year...
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Kurt Ullman wrote:

Bank? BANK?
That means you can access it only about 50 hours out of the 168 hours in a week, or less than 1/3rd of the time. You probably can't drain more than $500 from your account via an ATM machine.
In my view, one should keep their emergency cash in the mattress. Or in the pocket of an old suit. If the latter, pin a note on the clothing: "Do not give to Goodwill."
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On 4/16/2012 4:34 PM, HeyBub wrote:

Credit card. Many people have $5000 to $25 000 available on credit card then just pay back the money out of the bank to pay it off when it's convenient later in week or whatnot.
You can't use a credit card at all places but still it allows for emergency flexibility.
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These days, credit cards don't work if the data line is down. In any serious emergency, that is likely. Same with any kind of plastic or even the ATMs. These days they are becoming reluctant to cash a check a lot of places if they can't scan it back to your bank. A lot of times, the actual check is superfluous. You get debited as soon as they scan MICR off the check. Some merchants will hand it right back to you.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Junk silver if you are worried about the end of the world.
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When the world ends, I've got Mormon food storage. You have junk silver. I'm going home and fix some dinner. What are you going to do? Go out and try to convince hungry people to give up their last can of beans in exchange for a piece of metal with a face embossed on it? Good luck.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
"Mr. Austerity" <"PrintMo.Money "> wrote in message news:4f8c99bd$0$6275

Junk silver if you are worried about the end of the world.
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