Wiring second kitchen

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** Don't know what you're calling a split neutral, but they work fine on Edison circuits
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On 4/20/2011 3:58 PM RBM spake thus:

I think he meant to type "shared neutral", and I see no reason why they wouldn't work with one either.
I still wouldn't do it, though; what's the point? to show off how clever an electrician you are?
Oh, yeah, to save a couple buck's worth of cable ...
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** Typically, Edison circuits are used to save labor. There isn't a whole lot of price difference between two 2 wire cables or one 3 wire cable, but, if the run is 75 feet from the panel, it can be a real time saver. When I do kitchen counter outlets, I like to run a 3 wire circuit daisy-chained between all the outlets. I stagger the A and B circuits from outlet to outlet, but I have both circuits available at each location, in case there is a need to switch the arrangement.
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On 4/20/2011 4:49 PM RBM spake thus:

So do you put pull out wires for the opposite side (the side you're *not* using for that outlet), and connect them together in the box? Guess you'd have to, if you ever wanted to switch circuits later.
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**Yes, all the wires are spliced with wire nuts, and the outlets are pigtailed to whichever circuit I'm using at each location
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This discussion brings up some (interesting) issues:(
Running a business from your home
Installing a second kitchen, in many areas thats not allowed, because it makes your home 2 residences:(
If your getting permits for all this?
Future inspections by health authorties etc?
Space in main panel for expansion?
If OP has a handy knowledgable friend to help him you could do the electrical yourself and learn something while you at it:)
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Often there are exceptions made for a mother/daughter apartment, perhaps with a shared entrance, or some such. Like all this stuff, it varies *widely* by jurisdiction.

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On Apr 20, 9:41pm, " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

Agree. If he's pulling permits, then that's the first thing I'd look into before I did anything else to make sure the second kitchen is OK.
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On 4/20/2011 9:37 PM, bob haller wrote:

Lots of folks overlook that one. If you are selling food to the public your facility needs to be NSF compliant. So "standard home kitchen" furnishings and equipment won't be acceptable.

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bob haller wrote:

I wonder if putting a little 100A subpanel in the new kitchen would be worth the trouble? Instead of running 5 or 6 or 7 new circuits all the way back to the main panel, run one bigass aluminum cable. Then lots of short runs from the new box.
-Bob
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Personally I would spend the bucks for copper, and mnimize voltage drops on my side of the meter:)
Paying extra for copper is a one time event. Small in comparision with a new kitchen
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wrote:

Personally I would spend the bucks for copper, and mnimize voltage drops on my side of the meter:)
Paying extra for copper is a one time event. Small in comparision with a new kitchen
There wouldn't be any more voltage drop with aluminum than there would be with copper
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My thoughts, not an electrician. The refrigerator should have it's own circuit, max two on that line. Igo with separate line for microwave. It takes enough power to have it's own line and is also a safety and noise issue. High current devices should have their own ckt. That's three so far, and I would split remaining outlets on two more ckts. Some of today's ovens don't need 30 amp cots, and 20 amp 220v dual breaker is typically enough, but check oven. I count 6 circuits. Separate GFI outlets.
Greg
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I have a simple small kitchen, but added some circuits since I moved in. I can run my two microwaves, one is a combo turbo/microwave at the same time along with another turbo oven, and even another one, I plug in. I frequently have two microwaves running along with the separate turbo, all at the same time, not counting the gas oven and gas burners.
Ironic, my little panasonic microwave is the most powerful at 1200watts out. I think it draws 14-15 amps.
A turbo oven is an oven with fan created currents, while all oven create convection regardless of fan.
Greg
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This seems prudent. In many parts of N.America the fire safety code requires that new elec. wiring requires a building permit and must be installed by an accredited electrician.

Licensed electricians know the answers.
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Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
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On 4/20/2011 2:49 PM, cln wrote:

the counter tops. I would also use a separate circuit for each outlet. That way you don't have to worry about whether the toaster and the coffee maker are on the same circuit. To many people that will seem like over kill, but I think from a convenience stand point it will be well worth it.
Bill
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You may be setting yourself up for a real problem. Consider this scenario: you get the work done, the bake shop has some success and a reporter from your Daily Tattler does a nice article in the Homemakers section of the paper. People at City Hall notice and find there is no business permit, state sales tax number, permits for any of the home modifications (maybe excepting electrical, hopefully), food service permit, updated tax assessment, and numerous other ordinance violations. Guess what might happen next. All of this may not matter if it's just a hobby, but if not, then it would be wise to sit down with the family lawyer and set up an S Corporation and go through the usual steps of setting up a business. Renting some commercial space is easy these days with the business climate as poor as it is. Tangling with bureaucrats is never fun because they nearly always prevail. I will pass on your original question because there are some good opinions already posted here. Joe
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An S corporation doesn't do anything to solve getting a business permit, collect state sales tax , permits, updated tax assessment or numerous other possible ordinance violations. There are plenty of small businesses that are sole proprietorships.

Renting commercial space has always been easy. The problem is what it costs and the improvements one has to put in to make it into what one needs. Plus, if the business goes kaput, a lot of what you put into any commercial space is gone. But you still may be stuck with a 3 or 5 year lease.
And also he never said the wife is opening a bake shop. For all we know, she could be baking some cakes for monthly church suppers or cub scout bake sales. Few people would set up an S corp for that.

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wrote:

Well if its a small baking for others it might be better to gut and upgrade the existing kitchen. Make it a real showplace:) adds significant value to the home without generating zoning issues
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