Just moved in a couple weeks ago, and drain in kitchen is slow.....
I have plunged, snaked and Drano-ed...and it is still a slow drain.
I think at least PART of the problem, is that I just noticed that the sink has no drain vent!
A problem, no?
Now my question is, can I tie into the existing vent, or do I need a seperate one? If I need to install a new one, does it necessarily NEED to be vented through the roof? Or is there some alternate method....thanks!
No. Mine has no vent. The drain system is vented, but the kitchen is not by itself.
Umm....but the sink is NOT vented. Does not tie into the rest of the drain system.
It has its own "exit" through the basement wall into the septic.
This works just fine. The pipe sizes are chosen large enough that air can still circulate and neutralize pressure imbalances which might siphon the trap.
Note that this isn't allowed *everywhere* and the rules changed over time as well. Allowed in Podunk in the Midwest but not in NYC or LA.
Anyway, that design is not the source of your trouble. Could be clogged in the drain leading to outside or the branch to the septic could be clogged or.......
Jim
How large is the drain pipe?
That can work if the pipe is sized adequately, but for all you know this was installed by a do-it-yourself plumber with no concern about air circulation.
One simple test for whether this is your problem -- slide a length of
1/2" vinyl tube down through the trap so that it provides a small vent up through the drain. If it flows better despite having the tube taking up so much of the drain pipe, then venting it ought to help your problem.
Google for "Studor Mini-Vent" or Air admittance valve
I bought a house that didn't have a vent in the entire system. The plumber I hired put in a main waste vent and then because the kitchen sink is 20 feet from the main stack, he installed an air admittance valve under the sink. As you pointed out, venting requirements are dependent on pipe size and distance to the nearest vent. The air admittance valve is a good way around some problems but they are not permitted in some localities.
Bob
Where in the US exactly is it permitted to have a sink drain line going into a septic system with no vent? Regardless of the pipe size, if sewer gas builds up, the only place for it to go is straight into the kitchen by pushing the water right out of the trap. And it certainly sounds to me that the incorrect plumbing is very likely the cause of his sink problem.
Only item in this house that doesn't have a vent connection is the bath tub; did that because we understood that was OK less than six feet from the main vent. It has worked finefor some 30+ years, although occasionaly draining a full tub sometimes appears to be slow. No problems though, possibly because the bathtub has an overflow that allows some air to gurgle (i.e. vent) down the pipe with the bathwater. To avoid many separate vent pipes through the roof we tied all our individual plumbing vents back to the main stack in the roof space; it required slightly more pipe but it was glued 1.5 inch ABS; so we have only one 3 inch pipe projecting through the roof to keep caulked. It my understanding that you could vent out through say the eave of the house provided that is competely above the height of the water levels in all fixtures/sinks in the house. But a more knowledgeable plumbing expert than I should comment on that. Terry.
This was accepted practice in many places for a long time (Ohio for one). For kitchen drains (as an example), the drain was made 2" for a 1 1/2" trap. That size trap cannot pass enough water to completely fill the
2" pipe and thus air CAN circulate to balance pressures. The guide was that a max of 1" (water column) disturbance in a trap was acceptable. Ref. 1959 Natl Plumbing Code.For another example, floor drain traps were never vented in the past. Here again, reliance was placed on the inability of maximum flow to completely fill the main house drain. Basement showers and toilets were permitted without vent in the same way.
"Island" kitchen sinks are another example. Here, no vent to the roof is possible at all. So, a loop of 2" pipe (under the sink) is permitted to be connected downstream of the trap to act as a recirculating vent.
Today, the rules in many places have gotten stricter, requiring vents where none were used in years past. But the fact remains that these "ventless" connections worked well and were allowed by code.
Jim
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