Wiring Question

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wrote:

Under the CEC, yes. Under the [US] NEC, no.
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:32:58 -0700 (PDT), stan

Not if they are GFCI.

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wrote:
[snip]

A GFCI receptacle can't be split, but there's no reason a split-receptacle (non-GFCI) couldn't be wired to the LOAD sides of 2 separate SFGC's (4 wires plus ground connected to split receptacle).
[snip]
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This may have been true with the first generation GFCIs from the 1980s. But for a modern GFCI, if a motor trips it, it is because the motor has a ground fault, and the motor should be fixed or replaced.
Cheers, Wayne
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Wayne Whitney wrote:

In a commercial kitchen 15/20A plug-in refrigeration has to be on a GFCI.
--
bud--

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stan wrote: (snip)

While Stan is correct technically, for the sake of the poor SOB having to reverse-engineer the wiring 20 years from now at the next remodel, I would recommend against it. Wire things up vanilla, and label the runs in the panel (sharpie works great) and at the junction boxes. Plus labeling the breakers, of course. An annotated floorplan nailed to wall near the service panel, is a a wonderful gift to electricians not yet born.
-- aem sends...
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On 8/18/2009 6:51 PM aemeijers spake thus:

>

>

Amen to that, "aem".
(Although that level of documentation seems to violate the Electrician's Creed, which must have a clause in it that reads something like "Thou shalt not label any panels unless the homeowner or inspector maketh you").
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

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When I worked with the phone company, it was traditional, at a complicated site, that said something like, "Joe, installer # xyz is familiar with this installation."
Of course, when Joe retired or got transferred, you were, once again, out of luck.
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rangerssuck wrote:

You don't need a separate box for each circuit. Multiple circuits could go through the same box as long as there are not too many wires in the box.
--
bud--



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I'm almost certain that I read that you can't have separately protected circuits sharing a box. Perhaps this only applies to outlet boxes and not to junction boxes. If I can do it with fewer boxes, that would be great. Do you have a reference for that?
JP
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Or, now that I'm thinking about it more, maybe this falls into a gray area. The circuits don't actually terminate in the box, but the wires themselves don't just pass through, either. There will most definitely be wire nuts involved..
JP
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The NEC is a permissive document, so if you believe it is prohibited, then it is up to you to find an article prohibiting it. But I'm 100% sure there isn't one, it is done all the time.
Cheers, Wayne
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Wayne Whitney wrote:

I agree with Wayne, RBM and gfretwell. The number of circuits in a box is limited by the number of wires you can have in the box.
If an electrician can't figure it out it is natural selection.
If others can't figure it out they shouldn't be working on electrical.
If circuits have a common neutral, the breaker has to be 2 pole.
--
bud--

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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:12:40 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck

That is what I would do. I don't think I would want extra lengths of romex that will be hot until the other work. Having each outlet on a separate circuit is good for the kitchen.
You should also consider if you do use boxes, they will have to be accessible when the basement work is done.
Don't forget, kitchen outlets have to be GFCI.
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The way I read the OP they will just be dead ends. And won't be 'hot' until later hooked up the new panel/service. Or will be hooked up temporarily to provided some limited outlets until other work is completed.
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You usually install a new service at or near the existing one, as all the existing cables are going to have to be rerouted into the new equipment, or a feeder will have to go from the new equipment to feed the existing equipment if it will remain as a sub panel. For neatness and simplicity, I would leave long tails and no junctions, especially if you have any heavy loads like electric ranges or cooktops. FYI, Nec requires a minimum of 2-20 amp circuits for kitchen outlets. All counter top outlets must be GFCI protected. Every counter space 12" or larger requires an outlet. At any point along a counter space, you must be within two feet of an outlet
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I'd pick C and D. Put a new subpanel in the basement just under the kitchen, wire all the new work to it, and run a single big cable back to the old main panel, with enough slack in it to re-route to wherever the new main panel will be. One run of heavy-gauge cable will be less work than making all those runs in romex, plus you can make the new main panel a little smaller than it would need to be otherwise.
With your range wired to the new subpanel, you may find that you can use the routing that its cable used back to the old panel to route your new subpanel feed. Might save a bit of drilling.
Chip C Toronto
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I thought about that, but:
A) it's a gas range
B) The refrigerator, some lights and at least one outlet will go to a generator transfer switch. which has to be located at the main panel.
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