Wiring ?

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On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:47:07 -0700 (PDT), jamesgang

called it, a bushing) which would allow romex to be freely pulled through, yet both protect it and prevent fire and smoke from a damaged cable from being circulated through the "plenum" - or air handling system.
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 00:18:05 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller

center joists in a blind space and came out virtually dead center of the last joist, with no access other than the first joist, where I had totally open access, and the last joist where I had a 10" square hole in the floor... It took 4 3 foot sections of 1/2" Sched 40 water pipe and 3 pipe couplings to do it, using a 1 1/4", iirc, forstner bit.
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On 07/11/2014 11:13 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

<snip>

Yep, that's the same reason he gave!
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On Saturday, July 12, 2014 12:21:28 AM UTC-4, philo  wrote:

Except of course that reason makes no sense. You could use Romex that goes through the center of joists even easier as a means to hang clothes, etc., yet running it that way is permitted. And no matter what you do with a ru nning board, unless you cover the cable, or somehow make it inaccessible, i nstead of doing it like 99% of the running boards out there, it's still not going to be very hard to get one of the thin wire coat hangers around the cable anyway.
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On 07/12/2014 07:58 AM, trader_4 wrote:

<snip>

Yes, but I might as well just do what the code says.
Anyway, I have the first run of Romex up there and will do a second run later.
While I was up on the ladder near the ceiling...the cat had to see what I was doing and somehow got up on the main beam just below the floor just to check out what I was doing...and to clear out quite a few cobwebs!
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On Saturday, July 12, 2014 11:15:14 AM UTC-4, philo  wrote:

e, instead of doing it like 99% of the running boards out there, it's still not going to be very hard to get one of the thin wire coat hangers around the

I agree, a running board is an easy solution. I'm just saying that the alleged reason for the code, doesn't make much sense, because you can very easily hang stuff off of Romex that goes through joist holes too.
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On 07/12/2014 10:21 AM, trader_4 wrote:

<snip>

Codes often overlook common sense.
I am a member of an organization where at their previous location was required to make the bathroom fully handicap equipped.
No problem with that except it was on the second floor accessible by stairs only. No elevator was required.
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On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 23:20:56 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Not true in residential. It is specifically exempted by 300.22(C) exception. This is the picture in the handbook with the commentary to that rule and it describes the OP's situation exactly.
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/joist%20bay%20as%20air%20return.jpg
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On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 23:25:26 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

FYI on fill
Table 1 Percent of Cross Section of Conduit and Tubing for Conductors
... (2)     Table 1 applies only to complete conduit or tubing systems and is not intended to apply to sections of conduit or tubing used to protect exposed wiring from physical damage.
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 00:18:00 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

be considered a "plenum" so I use nothing but plenum rated cable. It's a bit more expensive, but I only have to carry one kind of cable that way.
Speeking of which - has anyone heard / can anyone give a reference to support- data cable can not be run through steel conduit or terminated in steel junction boxes??? I had some Home Despot electrical supply droid telling me that earlier this week. He claimed the signal would be reduced too much by the power being dissipated "forming a feild around the wires that would be short circuited by the steel box/conduit" or some similar explanation. Said it had to be terminated in plastic box and run through plastic conduit if it could not be simply run down the wall space and terminated in a "drywall ring" with the data plate screwed to it. Being he had earlier insisted I needed minuinum Cat 5, and preferably cat6 cable to extend a Nortel Norstar phone (the whole system was wired on initial install with single unsheilded twisted pair Belden cable) and insisted I needed a licenced electrician to install phone and data cabling, I called "bullshit" on this latest information - but there are some smarter guys than me on this list so I figured I'd ask.
Any truth to this guy's proclamation?
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On Saturday, July 12, 2014 1:14:36 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I'm sure what you choose to carry for convenience on a truck for commercial work in Canada will be of special relevance to a guy in the USA running Romex in his home basement. And when my first post cited the relevant code section. Good grief.
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On Saturday, July 12, 2014 1:14:36 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

About as much as there is to your claims in this thread. You two should get along well together.
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 01:14:36 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Not true at all.
In a previous life I was a BICSI certified data installer and 3/4" EMT was the gold standard for running data cable. The idea that a metal raceway is bad is ludicrous.
If you are talking about a single line POTS phone, you can run it on bell wire, as the telcos did for decades.
He is simply confused because they sell that orange, unlisted "data" style of ENT. It is basically the same price as regular "smurf tube" but it is an inferior product. You can barely trust the guys at Home Depot to know which aisle the drywall screws are on and certainly can not be trusted on any code or technical issue.
As for the license, that may be true if you are selling the service of running low voltage wire but it can be a "limited" license, not a regular electrical contractor's license. YMMV by state. (in the US)
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 00:24:07 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

conductors than as part of a NMS Cable. A 14/3 with ground fills the conduit a lot more than 4 14awg wires.
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 01:55:44 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Thanks. You have confirmed for me what I thought. The guy is a Bulshit artist. In my 26 years in the computer and networking business I had never heard his theory, and had successfully uses EMT and metal junction boxes in MANY applications. The phone system in question is not POTS. It is a fully digital private exchange system - but still only requires single pair as it was multichanel digital multiplex.
Our current system requires cat5 - runs on 100mb ethernet (VOIP system) and MANY of our phone and gigabit ethernet circuits are pulled through 1/2" and 3/4" emt and terminated in steel electrical boxes.
As for data cabling, here in Ontario licencing is not (yet) required for voice/data/signal wiring under 48 volts. The idiot claimed licencing was required because "ring voltage" was over 42 volts (digital systems have no "ring voltage")
Thanks again for the (in)sanity check!!
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 12:37:16 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

POTS phones are a 725 class III power limited circuit.
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