Wire nut w/5 #12

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Right, just not for the EGC.
Wayne
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On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:24:58 +0000 (UTC), Wayne Whitney

Where does cutting back a well twisted and soldered joint violate that??

Or anything recommended violate that??? The ground connector, twisted and soldered with no tape meets the requirement (assuming solid wires)

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You are supposed to solder last. If you cut it after you solder it, you no longer guarantee that it is mechanically secure without the solder.

I disagree. I would say that connection "depends solely on solder". Clearly it depends on the solder to be an acceptable splice, and since the solder is only added element to make the splice, it depends solely on the solder.
Anyway, that issue is mute, because the 2008 NEC prohibits soldered splices for the EGC by omitting them from the list of acceptacle connection methods in 250.8(A).
So go ahead and solder the grounded and ungrounded conductors, but for the grounding conductor, you would need to do something else, like crimping before soldering.
Cheers, Wayne
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Wayne Whitney wrote:

ya and for a number of years the speed limit was 55. What's your point? No one's opening up the tape and looking.
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Ideal makes push in connectors similar to these in I have seen up to six conductors.
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/14-46-wire-connectors/push-in-wire-connector-638828.aspx
They really do work well in where space is an issue.
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I did see these at HomeDepot, but when you examine them up close, I don't see how that could not melt when subject to any amperage. The expert on hand said that some/most the new light fixtures have these provided as opposed to wire-nuts with the fixture in the box.
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I did see these at HomeDepot, but when you examine them up close, I don't see how that could not melt when subject to any amperage. The expert on hand said that some/most the new light fixtures have these provided as opposed to wire-nuts with the fixture in the box.
They are rated for number 12 wire. I haven't researched all the specs, but we have used them on several jobs without a problem. They make pigtailing really quick too.
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I did see these at HomeDepot, but when you examine them up close, I don't see how that could not melt when subject to any amperage. The expert on hand said that some/most the new light fixtures have these provided as opposed to wire-nuts with the fixture in the box.
http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=in-sure&div=0&l1=push-in&l2=in-sure
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.
I saw them also, but on reading the fine wording it stated "for ground connections". Also, how would the block be any different than back- stabbed recepticals, which are no longer allowed for #12 wire???
Red
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I saw them also, but on reading the fine wording it stated "for ground connections". Also, how would the block be any different than back- stabbed recepticals, which are no longer allowed for #12 wire???
Red
I read the label on the container of the Ideal In-Sure Push-In connector, and it does not mention for ground connections anywhere. It says #12 - #20 solid, and also various sizes of stranded copper only. The way these differ from backstab receptacles is there is more surface area contact. On the label it says 600V, but stamped on the device is 20A 300V. Also on the label is a heat rating of 105C (221F).
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On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:41:17 -0400, "gore"

Just like a "back-stab" connection.
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Newsgroups: alt.home.repair Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:35 PM Subject: Re: Wire nut w/5 #12

Not like a back stab connection. With a back stab you have like a millimeter connection on 2 sides of the wire. With the push in connectors the connection inside kinda wraps around the wire covering almost the full wire where it makes contact
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I suggested the chocolate block, because we used those in Europe on all sizes of conductor. House wiring was 220V of course. Wire nuts were prohibited as inferior, and I have to admit they are, though they usually work.
I've never checked NEC and don't know if the chocolate block is legal here. But it's completely secure, and completely checkable - you can see if you got the connection perfect or not, unlike a wire nut.
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Can you provide a link to a "chocolate block", all my searches don't find any electrical connectors.
Thanks
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Look here
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3319/3633464329_255ed1fd42.jpg
or here https://www.europaspares.com/ELECTRICAL/COMPONENTS_and_TOOLS/CHOCOLATE_BLOCK_ELECTRICAL_CONNECTOR_3239.html to see what I'm talking about.
But I really don't know about NEC in the US. When I worked in Europe I never saw anything else, they came in multiple sizes. Understand I supervised electricians but am not one myself. And sometimes the language barrier got in the way. But you could crank down on those chocolate blocks as tight as you needed. They were absolutely secure with no strain relief required. And they are completely inspectable - after tightening you can see if a wire slipped out or didn't make contact, unlike a wire nut where it's all hidden.
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TimR wrote:

Musta worked in the UK.

Looks like the screws stay accessible (a hazard). Are there covers?
I have read that you snap off the number of chocolate block terminals you need (probable source of the name) - broken ends stay insulated?
The nearest product in the US is probably AlumiConn from King innovation: <http://www.kinginnovation.com/products/electrical-products/alumiconn/ it is screw terminal, like the UK chocolate blocks above. Was made for copper - aluminum connections but good for copper - copper. 3 ports; wire range #10-18 I suspect these are significantly more expensive than the 2 below.
The 2 products in this thread (posted by gore) are both push in:
Ideal <http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=in-sure&div=0&l1=push-in&l2=in-sure 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ports; generally #12-20, one #10
Gardner Bender PushGard Push-in Wire Connectors <http://www.gardnerbender.com/products/wire_connectors.html 2, 3, 4, 8 ports; #12-22; easy to remove (GB says)
Anyone know how the connection is made in Ideal and GB? Specifically why they are better than backstabs?
--
bud--

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