Using only one 110v feed from a 220v pair on a remote grounded motor.

[Peter Solomon]

I have a burned out blower for a spa that is located more the 50 feet from the spa. The blower was 1.0hp and 220v (USA). The replacement blower I have is 110v, and 2.0hp.

The wire from the old installation is as follows:

From a sub panel, located on the opposite side of the house, there are three breakers. One set on the left provide 110v for the in water pool light, and the pool pump. The right side has the double joined 220v breaker pair for the 11k spa heater and 220v for the previous blower.

The wires at the blower end are red black and green. There is also a heavy gauage green wire that runs from a pole in the ground, along side the air feeder tube, that runs some 75 feet to the spa, located on the other side of the pool, from the side of the house. The green wire was previously connected to the metal housing bell that covers the blower blades. The entire housing of the previos blower was metal.

The new blower is plastic and has three wires: black, white and green. There is no obvious outside lug in which to connect the old earth ground, connect to the pole.

My question is, can I use the red wire as a neutral by moving it in the sub-panel to the neutral bus, making both ends with white tape. Then connecting the black wire, to the black wire on the blower, the red wire (Now connected to the bus) to the white wire of the blower, and then the green wire to both the pole driven in the ground (If nessesary) and to the ground that returns to the breaker.

Im assuming its a complete no in attaching the white wire to the grounded green wire (One connected to the pole in the ground next to the blower), the black wire to the black from the sub-panel and the green to the green from the subpanel, (Sounds like this is trouble).

Or should I go through the pain of running a white wire through all the conduit?

Bottom line, Im selling the house and the pool and so Im not conserned with 110v vs 220 which one is better and so on, let the new owner worry about efficiency, they should be happy Im putting in a new blower vs. the dead rusted one. I just dont want to electricute anyone. We can also skip the call an electrician as thats an obvious solution, but with the existing wires in place and a smiple matter of moving a wire in the sub-panel (After shutting down the main) seems logical, easy and safe? Any suggestions, background, reasons, Code answers would be much apreciated.

Thank You

Pete

[Joseph Meehan]

I guess the simple answer is maybe NOT.

You did not tell us the size of the wires or the ratings (amps) of the new blower or the breaker.

I might add that someone who really knows the code, which I don't may say that you can't run that 120V blower off half of the 240V breaker. I have not heard that and I would prefer to see a new line and single breaker. Then again if someone wanted to return to a 240 blower they will need to go back to the old wires.

[SQLit]

I had an similar problem with my pool when I was selling my home. After lots of suggestions on how to micky mouse it. I opted for digging 160 feet of trench, installing new wrapped imc conduit and pulling in brand new conductors. I am not interested in getting sued by someone who just bought my home. As my luck had it they were both attorneys. Safe and sound is the path I travel. Your home your call

[Chris Lewis]

According to Peter Solomon :

You appear to have a 240V circuit with _two_ grounds, rather than a 240/120V split circuit with one ground. Which is pretty typical for pools & spas, especially when the original was 240V only.

While you can mark a "white" (normally neutral) wire "black" (hot), you cannot do the reverse - in other words, you _cannot_ mark a "hot coloured" wire (red or black) white (neutral) according to the NEC.

Secondly, if you did this, where does the 240V come from for the heater?

You have a couple of options:

- Establish a proper neutral for the 240V (tho the NEC will frown on supplying separate 120V and 240V devices off the same circuit, and even if they didn't, to be legal, the existing circuit would have had to be in conduit - you can't haywire a circuit out of multiple separately sheathed conductors).

- Establish a new/separate 120V circuit for the blower.

- Replace the blower with a 240V unit.

- See if the blower motor can be converted to 240V (I'd very much expect this to be possible with a motor rated at 2HP on 120V)

- Reexamine the amp ratings and see if you can put the blower on the

120V pump circuit (unlikely).

I think blower motor conversion or the new circuit are your best bets.

In any event, you'll have to check the amp ratings - at 120V and double the HP, the new blower could consume 4 times as much amps as the old, which when combined with the heater may be too much for the side of the 240V dual breaker you put it on. Which is a bad idea anyway.

[Joseph Meehan]

I read another reply and then re-read the original message. I missed some of your original message, like "..can I use the red wire as a neutral by .. " Considering that please consider my answer incomplete as I did not take that into consideration.

[HaHaHa]

Before this turns into a nightmare, check to see that the new blower can't be converter internally to run on 220v. Most pool / spa equipment motors/blowers can.

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[Peter Solomon]

SQLit, thank you for the reply, digging a trench wouldnt be practical for me, buying another 220v and eating the 110v model would more then likey be cheaper for my situation as it would involve ripping up the concrete, the blower is located on the opposite end of the pool, in a zero lot line home in South Florida. This is one of those no room to go around the perimeter, spa is integrated with the pool situations. But thank you for taking the time to reply, I aprecaite your wisdom too!

[Peter Solomon]

Mr. Meehan,

Thank you, I would have no issue with a new line, if it didnt require digging up the concrete. I even tried to fish a single white ground through the conduit, but there is something binding it up in there. Thank you though for your generous responce, I should have added this to the detail as well.

[Peter Solomon]

I poked around and found a lot about step down transformers and the likes, but no docs on motor conversion to 220v. Is this somthing that involves rewinding the motor? Heck I know it works on 220v, all hell broke loose the first time I wired it up and it shot off the PVC and the plug for the side mount blew out. Like an abbot and costello movie, then like a man, I picked up the directions and the very first line said "DO NOT HOOK THIS UP TO A 220V line as your blower may be destroyed" Luckly it was not, it over heated and shut down before it was cooked to a crisp. Thank you for your responce, I apreciate your taking the time!

[Peter Solomon]

Chris thank you for responding, actualy its one black (Hot) and one red (Hot) 120v each, 180 out of sync giving the US standard of 220v. Then I have one green, ground to the sub-panel and a green that used to run from the outside housing of the old and all metal blower from a external lug. This unit is all plastic, has three wires, white, black and red and is rated for 110v. All I am looking to do is steal the red wire and re-route it to the neutral bus, effectively making it a white wire. I can add another breaker instead of taking it off of the double throw breaker. I mean in therory I cant see what the issue would be with the exception of the double breaker in the mix, then again I could be missing something?? Thanks again for responding.

Pete

[Chris Lewis]

According to Peter Solomon :

I understood all that.

Right - see above - you can't use a black or red wire for neutral as per NEC.

Secondly, you say this circuit is supplying a 240V heater too. Once you steal the red wire from the 240V circuit, where's the heater going to get that leg of the 240V from?

The double breaker doesn't matter. Reusing a red conductor for neutral does. And you'd kill your pool heater.

[Chris Lewis]

According to Peter Solomon :

I understood all that.

Right - see above - you can't use a black or red wire for neutral as per NEC.

Secondly, you say this circuit is supplying a 240V heater too. Once you steal the red wire from the 240V circuit, where's the heater going to get that leg of the 240V from?

The double breaker doesn't matter. Reusing a red conductor for neutral does. And you'd kill your pool heater.

Many motors can be converted to 120 from 240V and vice-versa. Check inside the motor terminal box.

If you can't, your most-legal option is to eat the motor and buy a 240V one.

[Chris Lewis]

According to Peter Solomon :

I understood all that.

Right - see above - you can't use a black or red wire for neutral as per NEC.

Secondly, you say this circuit is supplying a 240V heater too. Once you steal the red wire from the 240V circuit, where's the heater going to get that leg of the 240V from?

The double breaker doesn't matter. Reusing a red conductor for neutral does. And you'd kill your pool heater.

Many motors can be converted to 120 from 240V and vice-versa. Check inside the motor terminal box.

If you can't, your most-legal option is to eat the motor and buy a 240V one.

[HaHaHa]

No. Many motors (especially those sold for pool and spa use) are designed, internally, to operate on either 120v or 220v. All that's involved is opening the the access cover and switching 2 wires on 2 terminals.

The motor nameplate should both indicate, and instruct how to do this.

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