trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up

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On 6/28/2015 10:04 AM, bob haller wrote:

Sounds like you are buying 4 walls and an umbrella. Would be nice to have it salvaged rather than left to fall down in time. Take lots of before and after photos.
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its a brick home the structure is solid, sure it needs work, much of whick i and some friends can do myself:), since i helped them they should return the favor.
while you learn new skills, and look with pride at what you accomplished...
besides its fun:)
besides this can make money wether you live in it, rent it out, or sell it in the future,, plus you removed a blight from the neighborhood.
I like the fact the neighbors are interested.
the back yard is surrounded on 3 sides by trees
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On 06/28/2015 08:15 AM, trader_4 wrote:
[snip]

Running it dry will help. It's something I do regularly now. Having a gasoline shutoff helps.
I seem to have heard of another problem with generators. That they depend on some residual magnetic field that has to be refreshed occasionally. I'm not sure how true this is, or if it applies to mine (Honda EB3000c, which, according to the manual, generates 3-phase which is electronically converted to 1-phase).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/
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Running a car to operate a 500, or even a 1000 watt inverter, is an awfull inefficient and expensive way to provide emergency power.
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On 6/28/2015 1:25 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Agree. It also helps light up the house, and get the neighbors to call the cops. Nothing like revolving red light bars to help you see to get ready to go to bed.
- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .
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On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 6:12:45 AM UTC-5, pete wrote: If it had worked this time, I had planned on

The items you are powering need a stable 60Hz...I think the inverter is below par for this. Sometimes CFL's are the only thing that flickers when you have a minute power fluctuation...and your TV may be CCFL (and not LED).
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On 06/28/2015 06:12 AM, pete wrote:

With your car running, the inverter will be running with full input voltage.
With the car off, the battery voltage will eventually drop to the point where the inverter's output is low or unstable.
Your car battery is probably in good shape, but your spare battery is either weak or was not fully charged.
Also note:
A car battery is no designed for deep discharge...basically all it would normally need to do is supply a lot of current for a short period of time.
If you discharge a car battery too often it will die prematurely.
To run an inverter it's best to use a battery specifically designed for deep discharge...such as a trolling motor battery.
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Op, Here the answer to your problem. Most inverters have a low voltage cut off that will turn them off When the input voltage gets below something like 10 volts.
A good car battery puts out 12 volts which leaves you only 2 volts margin. You MUST use heavy cables and connectors to connect the inverter to the battery. 100 watts at 12 volts is almost 10 amps so it is easy to drop a volt or more in the Cable and connectors.
A running car CHARGES the battery which means there is almost 14 volts across the battery. That extra 2 volts makes up for the drop in your cables.
Get some HEAVY cables and try it again.
Mark
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On 06/28/2015 08:04 AM, philo wrote:
[snip]

During one power outage, I ran a TV (372W LCD with fluorescent backlight) with an inverter on a deep-cycle battery. It lasted over 4 hours without any flickering.
--
Mark Lloyd
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On 06/28/2015 01:59 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:

I've got a few industrial-grade UPS's here and we once had a power outage go 24 hours.
Since the weather was hot, all I cared about was the fan I keep next to the bed and UPS held up the entire time.
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Pete whenever you go into high current hook up be careful! Base on 500 watts inverter. Voltage = 14 V. Vehicle running. Voltage = 12.5 V Battery sitting alone. At 500 watts, input needed 14 VDC. @36 amps. Size of wire #8 requires. In charge Mode At 500 watts, input needed 12.5 VDC. @40 Amps. Size of wire #8 requires. Not being charge.
1000 watts at same Voltage input you need to double Current and size of Wire. At start up when Vehicle is cool and in charging mode normally will be 14.4 Volts, after warm up it may drop down to 13.8 VDC. So you can see, there is some difference on output when Vehicle is running, Voltage of Battery will fluctuate when is in charging mode. Hooking up that size of inverter “do not use alligator clips you must have solid screw down to Battery post or you might have melt down of post, and needless to say fire or explosion. ******************************************************************************
"pete" wrote in message
I had a recent power outage that lasted for 3 days. Not having a generator on hand, I decided to try using what I did have for short term power purposes. The items consisted of the car, 500 watt inverter, and I had an extra car battery available.
I hooked up the inverter directly to the car battery in the car. With the car running, I was able to run the 46" LCD TV, and a couple of CFL lights which was all I really needed to do. However, I ran into some problems. If the car wasn't running the entire time, the items connected to the inverter would start flickering on and off after a period of time. If off of the car battery inside the car, this might be within an hour, but with the separate battery, maybe 10 minutes unless it was coupled to the car battery in the car with the car running.
All in all, I was disappointed. I'm wondering why the items wouldn't operate correctly unless the car engine was running. There certainly wasn't a lot of wattage being drawn.... the TV uses like 100 watts with the lights maybe 10 watts each, and there were 2. I had hoped to just use the battery in the car to occasionally "jump" and charge the separate battery when it got too low, but never got to that point as the attached items would start flicking on and off.
I see portable power packs with internal battery and inverter at places like Walmart. The inverter is usually 400 watts or so, so I know this method should have worked. Any ideas as to why my set up didn't work well would be welcomed. If it had worked this time, I had planned on maybe a 1000 watt inverter at some point which I had hoped maybe if this happened in the future to be able to run the house refrigerator from the inverter/ car battery set up, but not if I have to have the car running the entire time.
Thanks for your help.
Pete
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On 6/28/2015 6:12 AM, pete wrote:

Take care of it and this will virtually last forever: http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honda-EU2000IA1-Portable-Generator/p8519.html
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You need a deep cycle battery not a car battery. You were ruining your car battery by running it the way you were.
For emergency power needs, the best bang for your buck still can't beat out a gasoline powered generator.
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Let me inject idea that perhaps most of you will doubt about it, many years ago when I was boat Operator we, have use two types of batteries 4 x 8 volt and 3 x 12 volt, or 6 x 6 prospectively to make 36 volts however. The standard require for boats at that time was 32 volts. So we tried to use 4, 8 volts each for better results. So you can check with OEM of Inverter what would be Max voltage input, if Possible 2x8 volt Batteries would give longer life and lot longer sustainable power output, but then you will need SPECIAL CHARGER. Just the Idea, Note: TWO 12 VOLT in Parallel would be Idea Marin Battery or some truck batteries, which are more rugged but are also more expansive. Good Battery are not cheap!!!!
"pete" wrote in message
I had a recent power outage that lasted for 3 days. Not having a generator on hand, I decided to try using what I did have for short term power purposes. The items consisted of the car, 500 watt inverter, and I had an extra car battery available.
I hooked up the inverter directly to the car battery in the car. With the car running, I was able to run the 46" LCD TV, and a couple of CFL lights which was all I really needed to do. However, I ran into some problems. If the car wasn't running the entire time, the items connected to the inverter would start flickering on and off after a period of time. If off of the car battery inside the car, this might be within an hour, but with the separate battery, maybe 10 minutes unless it was coupled to the car battery in the car with the car running.
All in all, I was disappointed. I'm wondering why the items wouldn't operate correctly unless the car engine was running. There certainly wasn't a lot of wattage being drawn.... the TV uses like 100 watts with the lights maybe 10 watts each, and there were 2. I had hoped to just use the battery in the car to occasionally "jump" and charge the separate battery when it got too low, but never got to that point as the attached items would start flicking on and off.
I see portable power packs with internal battery and inverter at places like Walmart. The inverter is usually 400 watts or so, so I know this method should have worked. Any ideas as to why my set up didn't work well would be welcomed. If it had worked this time, I had planned on maybe a 1000 watt inverter at some point which I had hoped maybe if this happened in the future to be able to run the house refrigerator from the inverter/ car battery set up, but not if I have to have the car running the entire time.
Thanks for your help.
Pete
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On 7/1/2015 5:44 PM, tony944 wrote:

Well, you've been reliable and steady in the past, no reason to doubt.
12 volt marine trolling batteries can take some deeper discharge than motor starting batteries. Also, not cheap.
- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .
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Actually, 2 heavy sixes in series is a MUCH better solution than 2 12s in parallel.
A "battery" is a series of cells in series - which is what you maintain when installing 2 6 volts in series. Two slightly mismatched 12 volts in parallel can cause charge and discharge inballances which are not "good".
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