trouble with recent emergency battery, inverter, car set up

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On Wed, 01 Jul 2015 16:05:32 -0400, Stormin Mormon

inspectors allow a twist-lock cord to serve as the emergency disconnect instead of a switch.
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On 7/1/2015 11:02 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

A plug can be accidently pulled out. That could be a serious problem under the right circumstances. Twist lock, of course, prevents that.
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On 07/01/2015 11:05 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
[snip]

Are you thinking of freeze damage, or something else?
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Mark Lloyd
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A plug that's only partially pulled out can generate enough heat to start a fire - particularly in a device that draws a lot of amps.
--
Bobby G.




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On 7/8/2015 12:40 AM, Robert Green wrote:

Perhaps freezers should be hard wired, like furnace?
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On 07/08/2015 06:38 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

How about an electric dryer?
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On 7/8/2015 1:14 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:

Even more critical, and even more need for hard wiring.
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On 07/08/2015 02:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

The plug for my dryer is harder to get to, requiring moving the dryer (which requires moving the washer, because of limited space). It also takes more force to pull out.
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Thu, 02 Jul 2015 16:52:56 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Depending on how far it's pulled out and the load present, I'd be more concerned with an unexpected electrical fire that the breaker isn't going to notice is a problem (no short circuit or overload, no trip-basic breaker; I'm not including Arcfault/GFCI breakers in this). If nobody is home, this could be a real problem in a very short period of time. More so if this receptacle is located near easily flammable items.
Once the plastic on the receptacle itself catches, and, it will.. if someone isn't around, that fire isn't going to remain confined to the box.
Freeze damage and flooding are certainly two other valid concerns though. Then you have the issue of people who will borrow the outlet in partially finished basements and 'forget' to plug the original cord back in all the way. Give someone a place to plug something in, they usually will. Even if they shouldn't!
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On Wed, 01 Jul 2015 23:02:06 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

The natural gas furnace that came in my house (built 2000) has a plain old cord and plug. Further the single electrical socket it's plugged into is mounted on the ceiling so only the socket contact friction keeps the cord from falling out. And it never has.
Then when I had my water heater replaced I got one with an electric igniter instead of a pilot light like the old one. The water heater is right next to the furnace and the furnace was taking up that one and only socket. So the guy just used a 3 way plug to plug both into the one socket. The city inspector passed it so I guess he didn't care and I was glad.
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wrote:

Hmm.. It's probably because your electric ignition systems aren't pulling any significant amps on the dedicated circuit (should be) I'm assuming? the NG furnace uses the electricity for an ignitor and to run the blower(s)?
If so, that shouldn't exceed the circuits capacity. I'd make one suggestion though. Remove the 3way plug, remove the single outlet, replace with double outlet and faceplate. It was originally a single outlet to discourage you from trying to use that (should have been) dedicated circuit for anything besides what was originally plugged into it. Stapling the wires when routed properly once you plug them back in can also reduce stress on the connection and ensure they will never accidently become unplugged.
Plug both back in as normal. It's a better connection for both devices. If the single 3way comes out, you lose power on both as it is now. If one comes out of a brand new outlet, it doesn't automatically take the other with it in the suggestion I made.
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[snip]

Twist-lock? So maybe the problem has something to do with the plug falling out (or coming loose) when it shouldn't.
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On 07/01/2015 03:05 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Don't know nor do I care.
When some treehuggers half-dead maple tree falls on the power lines, I need a quick way to hook a generator to the furnace to keep the house from freezing.
Maybe the NEC should address the real problem of trees and power lines. Aren't downed power lines a bigger safety issue than furnace receptacles?
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On 7/2/2015 7:22 AM, scofflaw wrote:

Asking Wash DC to make sense is a bit much, don't you think?
I do agree with you, the time and effort is wasted on things that don't much matter.
- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .
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On 07/01/2015 03:05 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
[snip]

Could it have something to do with the furnace being connected to metal ducts and metal ducts in the rooms? If you have A/C, there's also the lineset.
Washers are connected to plumbing (refrigerators too if they have icemakers).
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On 6/28/2015 7:37 AM, pete wrote:

I'd be tempted to put ammeter on the TV and see what the real current draw is.
Car starting batteries some times have a "reserve capacity" listed, typically 25 amps for some hours and minutes. This will give you a better idea of capacity, compared to CCA.
Car batteries are designed for high current, very short time use. Like car starting. To use them for deep discharge can damage the batteries.
In such a setup, I think leaving the car running will give you better performance, and less chance of damaging the battery (s).
- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .
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On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 8:08:23 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

All good points. If he bought a new battery for this use, it should be a deep cycle type. Starting type batteries don't last long when you deep discharge them. Each discharge takes more life out of them than it would a deep cycle battery. And letting them sit for any period discharged is very bad too.
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On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 7:37:44 AM UTC-4, pete wrote:

I agree it sounds like the inverter didn't run as long as you'd expect. If your load calc is right, you had 120W. Allowing for some losses, let's make it 150W. That's 1.25A on the AC side, 12.5A on the battery side. I would think a typical car battery would be able to deliver 12A for a lot more than an hour. How long were the extension cords linking this together? Was it wired to the battery with cables of sufficient gauge? Another factor would be the age of the batteries used. A new battery and a 5 year old one are going to perform differently. Also possible there is something wrong with the inverter and how well it works may depend on whether it's a quality one or a cheap Chinese one off ebay.
Did you take any voltage or current readings while this was happening? That would have provided some relevant data.

OK, so we know that one of the batteries is brand new. Generators seem to generally do OK without maintenance when just sitting, provided you empty the gas, run it dry.
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check date code on new battery, it might have been sitting on a shelf for a year, was the new battery load tested before use and then charged?
my GF was thinking of buying and renovating a abandoned home. she wondered about the wiring.
i stumbled onto a near giveawy deal on CFs.
so i replaced nearly all lightbulbs thru the entire home, and feed a extens ion cord from the inverter to the homesmain braker panel. i managed to powe r up the entire home.
i did this during the day and returned with her about dusk that evening. pl ugged in the home it lit up nicely. some neighbor must of noticed and calle d the police. lots of questions like how did you get the power on?
about this time the diming began the OP reported.
kinda unreal standing in the living room of a abandoned home talking to pol ice with the lights dim and brite. the inverter was over heating from being slightly overloaded, and the short 12 volt cables had the inverter really close to the raditor fans exhaust, it was unreal hot when i pulled the syst em down.......
interestingl we were at that home yesterday, the community is sending my GF a letter aboutpurchase price.. we orignally stumbled onto it years ago.
of course it needs a lot of work, all copper gone, and some CPVC all frozen and broke. who cares thats what PEX is for:)
will need a new roof soon, new furnace and air, some wiring upgrades. it ha s romexall with ground wires but 2 prong outlets, no biggie replace all out lets and switches i have done lots of wiring, needs windows, the old steel casements werent a big loss neighbor hood kids used a neighbors river rock garden a a ammo dump.
someoe tore down the kitche cieling to steal the copper.
i enjoy fixing up homes, just wish my knee didnt hurt.
when we were there yesterday I discovered the ceramic tile kitchen was real ly glued on plastic tile. home will need a new kitchen and the old tile w as ugly. GF thought it was ceramic.
i am stuned the home wasnt really vandalized. we found a letter from someon e pushed thru a window wanting to rent it.. neighbors are nice and must be keeping a eye on things. hopefully purchase price is very low. i would enj oy the project.
years ago we removed all the trash from the place......
its aquired a name the ivy house. since ivy grew up the outside wall enter ed into the master bedroom and over time grew across the rooms and out ano ther window on the other side
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On 6/28/2015 10:04 AM, bob haller wrote:

the homesmain braker panel. i managed to power up the entire home.

some neighbor must of noticed and called the police. lots of questions like how did you get the power on?

the inverter was over heating from being slightly overloaded, and the short 12 volt cables had the inverter really close to the raditor fans exhaust, it was unreal hot when i pulled the system down.......

stumbled onto it years ago.

So, you considering moving into a place where the neighbors call the cops on you?
- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .
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