Stop valve or ball valve?

[Comboverfish]

Hi, I was hoping some of you could shed personal opinion on my decision to buy either stop or ball valves for the below detailed purpose. I have/had several previously installed sillcocks in our house that have no shutoff valves ahead of them. One of them froze and burst last year so I went out and grabbed the first water flow control valves I could find at the HW store, unfortunately they are gate valves, and by design they leak somewhat in fully closed position. Now I want to replace them with something that will work 100%. Here's the quandary:

With a rubber sealed type stop valve I could take out the mechanism and repair it for many years to come, but in theory they restrict flow somewhat.

With a Ball valve, they don't restrict flow as much, but are not serviceable (the ones I've seen) short of desolder/replace. Added bonus is the 1/4 turn ease.

The application is outdoor water faucets, where I run 75 foot hoses on each one, and in some cases 150 ft for short term use.

Do you think that the extra restriction of a stop valve would amount to anything significant or noticeable? Right now water supply at the hose(s) is adequate. Serviceability and restriction are my two highest priorities.

Thanks for your help.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Wow, that's good information. I never knew some valves were designed to leak. Can you tell us more about the reasoning behing that intended leaking. When do I specify a leaking valve versus a non-leaking valve?

[salty]

The problem with gate valves is that if you leave them partially open for long periods, the gate corrodes away into oblivion. You can turn the stem all you want, but there is no longer anything connected to it. Gate valves should only be used in the wide open, or completely closed positions.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Actually, gate valves are often used for throttling of the material in the pipes. They are better than others because they require more turns from open to close allowing more precise control. Yes, they do wear and corrode, but that is a normal maintenance function in a process situation. Home use is entirely different so, as you point out, full open or closed is best.

[Comboverfish]

DAGS on gate valves. Tell my one year old valve (that I installed with the guts removed to save them from heat damage during soldering) that it shouldn't leak. Explain to it that even though it has only been fully open twice and fully closed twice that it should still hold water and not drip at a rate of about 1 gallon a day.

That should set the real world straight; a good explanation. Maybe B&K/Mueller makes crappy valves. I'm not going to take another chance after what I've seen and read.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

That should set the real world straight; a good explanation. Maybe B&K/Mueller makes crappy valves. I'm not going to take another chance after what I've seen and read.

********************************

No need to DAGS, we have many of them in use at work. I know how they work and they don't go bad after a year except in rare cases. I have some in use with high pressure steam and they don't leak after 6 or 7 years. You stated that by design they will leak. Just because you had a leaking valve, it does not mean they all will.

[Comboverfish]

I didn't mean to state that they are intended to leak by design; despite my inaccurate wording, most people understood the intent. My experience and what I've searched collaborate in that gate valves unfortunately can't be expected to provide a 100% seal in the off position. I'm glad yours at work are functioning well, but they probably cost 100's of dollars a piece. Were talking about a $10 valve for home use. A stop (or globe) valve should work every time with minimal and simple repairs every 5 to 10 years. Another poster's idea of upsizing to 3/4 valves is what I'm currently considering. Thanks for your response.

[salty]

Please note the name of the usenet newsgroup in which you posted this. They also use tiny gate valves in some types of surgery. Completely irrelevent here.

[John Gilmer]

"Seems to me" that you need a "freeze proof" sillcock.

These are about 1' long (you can get 18" ones) and the idea is that the actual valve is inside the house where it will not freeze. The sealing surface is like most globe valves and the washers should be replaced when the valve doesn't make a leak tight seal. It shuld also slope SLIGHTLY down to the outside so that water completely drains.

Yes, the "shell" is quite thin but it only has to endure real pressure then the sillcock is connect to a hose AND the hose is connected to a shut off. These valves are quite solid from the connection to the household water up to the actual water sealing surface.

"After installing the gate valve last year in the spring and leaving it open, I closed it in late fall and opened the sillcock. Water dripped out of it right from that point, so I had to close the sillcock. Maybe some air stayed trapped between the two and helped out, but I would much rather have a 100% sealing valve behind the sillcock."

Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have "belt and suspenders but a freeze proof and properly maintained (good washer) sillcock should not leak.

"I had bought several of these gate valves at once to swap guts in the future, so I had the chance to look at an unused one yesterday. I wasn't impressed, that's when I DAGS on their design and found they aren't known for their tight seal capability."

Well, ball valves in "household" sizes are cheaper and more reliable than gate valves. In either case, it's best to operate them wide open are completely shut. If you want a metering valve, globe valves do quite well.

** Posted from **

[Comboverfish]

Thanks, John. It is and was a freeze-proof sillcock, either an 8" or

10" model. Where it passes through the house it only needs to clear a 1.5" board and siding materials. I was surprised that the original split open given our warmish basement temp during the winter, but it did. At that point it wasn't worth debating over why it broke, I just thought it wise to install a better quality unit along with shutoffs on it and the remaining functioning outdoor valves. Too bad the shutoffs don't work. I should have spent more time thinking about valve design before grabbing them over stop valves.