Shock with switch off..

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Pop lets put this in perspective. He didn't say he got killed, only that he felt a shock. That is a lot lower current. Folks have sent him off on an easter egg hunt looking for a loose wirenut or other bad connection upstream without taking into account the one right in front of him that he was screwing with. If he really wants to check into this, button it up properly and check the lamp shell to ground.
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No, not so at all: The loose nut was the one fooling with the fixture/s. The right perspective is, he was doing something he had no business doing because of his lack of knowledge and experience, as evidenced by many other posters in this thread. It's made for interesting reading, but it's getting boring now. ONLY getting a shock instead of dying is a lucky fluke in his case because he (and no one else) doesn't KNOW what he had in front of him.
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I guess that means "turn off the breaker"?
Do you think that may be why it is the first thing in the installation instructions?
Maybe he will read them next time huh?
If everyone reading this thread picks up on that one our work is done. ;-)
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If he took the wirenut off the white (how else do you connect up a fixture) and they open up only one of them is "white" now, the rest just turned black!
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Trouble reading? He said he got the shock off them when they were twisted together.
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There is a difference between "together" and electrically connected.
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Try this Toller-
Get into a ceiling of a commercial building and just grab any handy 277v neutral (properly working and eventually tied to ground) with a load on it with one hand, and building steel with the other.
Here's a less deadly experiment:
On any residential 120v circuit with any load on it, try using a neon tester between and of that circuits outlets neutral and a known ground. WHY does the neon tester emit light if the neutrals are all, eventually, tied to ground?
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dumb question, dumber analogy.

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concept of resistance. A neon tester has almost no resistance, so significant current will flow through it to a good ground. A person has very high resistance, so virtually no current will flow through the person.
You and Doug can babble to each other.
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I see, you reasoning applies only to 120v circuits and no other?

No, far from it. I'm not denying neutrals are grounded. The point is that even though the neutrals are grounded, current will take unexpected alternate routes to ground even though the entire electromechanical neutral system is totally up to par.

Why, when the neutral is grounded just as well? The neon tester HAS to be a higher resistance than a continious, properly connected and eventually grounded neutral path, no?

Virtually, huh? Now it's "virtually."

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You haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about. A neon tester has an _extremely_high_ resistance, so that hardly _any_ current will flw through it. That's why you *don't* get a very bright arc, when you connect one of those testers across hot and ground.
If you have one of those testers, open it up and see what's inside. Mine has a 150K-ohm resistor in it. That's not exactly my definition of "almost no resistance".

high. Think about it for just two seconds, Toller: human beings are mostly water.
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Ugly bags of mostly water, according to one Star-Trek episode...
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toller wrote:

I'll deny that neutrals are not grounded. But I know what you meant.
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resistance" is tenuous at best.
My digital multimeter, according to the manual, will measure resistance up to 40 M-ohm, yet it shows infinite resistance across the leads of my neon tester (indicating that the resistance of the tester is > 40 M-ohm). Opening the tester reveals a 150 K-ohm resistor in series with the neon lamp. Neither figure is compatible with my understanding of "almost no resistance".
Holding the multimeter leads tightly between the thumb and finger of each hand shows the resistance of this person to be approximately 200 K-ohm. That's a fairly high value, but the resistance of the neon tester is at least twenty times higher, and clearly *much* more current can flow through a human body than through one of those neon testers.
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AC resistance is different from DC resistance. A multimeter measures DC resistance. A neon bulb passes AC without much resistance, even if it has a high DC resistance.

This is not a constant. Dry skin resistance is much higher than wet skin resistance. Current is determined by the resistance to the applied voltage, AC or DC. I don't want my body to substitute for a neon bulb, no way.
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.not says...

Resistance is resistance. AC *impedance* is different from DC resistance.
In any event, a device with an internal 150 K-ohm resistor does not meet any reasonable definition of a very low resistance device, as was claimed.

the human body has such a high resistance to electricity that very little current can pass through it, and seems also to be unaware that 120VAC 60Hz can be fatal even at currents of a few tens of milliamperes, given the right (wrong?) circumstances.
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says...

resistance; A neon lamp is a variety of a 'gas discharge' device. These do no not conduct (i.e. have high resistance) until sufficient voltage (typically IIRC 70+ volts peak?) across them to cause the gas to conduct. Whereupon, depending on the type and mixture of gases they tend to adopt a typical voltage across the discharge. This property is made use of in gas filled voltage regulator tubes which were/are frequently used in tube electronics. Also gas discharge (commonly neon) used in timing circuits and for voltage protection devices.
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HA HA Budys Here wrote:

One thing that no one has mentioned so far, is the false shock. A neophyte working in a switch or outlet box, assumes that he turned off the power to the box. While working in the box and probably anticipating a shock, part of his hand touches the end of a bare wire. Because he is highly sensitive to an electrical shock, the touch of that sharply cut wire gives the impression of an electrical shock, and he recoils. This is similar to having a person blindfolded, and is being told that a boiling hot cup of water will be poured on his hand. Even if a cold cup of water is poured on his hand, he will immediately think it is boiling. The difference is that once his hand has recoiled from the water pour, he will have either hot water or cold water on his hand and will feel the difference. Once his hand recoils from the wire, he has no idea whether that 'shock' was actually electrical, or just the sense of a contact with a sharp wire end.
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wrote:

Tried to ignore this, but can 't <g>: Yes, there may well be current in the neutral, but ... if there is current, and nothing is wrong with the ckt, you will NOT get a shock by touching the neutral and any other wire/metal EXCEPT a hot one! Current may be flowing, but there will be very little voltage on it, if nothing is wrong with the ckt, to allow a shock to be felt. The voltage developed in a ckt with no problems will be less than one volt: not enough to give a shock that could hurt anyone, or even be felt, for that matter. Just because current flows in a wire does NOT mean you can get a shock off it. You must have voltage to cause current to flow, and the voltage to earth on a neutral wire is theoretically zero, usually a ver low voltage up to the rated current/temp of the wire. Only the wire's own resistance could develop any voltage potential.
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