on 11/19/2009 5:19 PM (ET) snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote the following:
That's what I did. A straight line from one marker to the other was blocked by trees between the two, so I measured ten feet away from the each marker into my property and stuck a temporary stake into the ground at each point, then strung a line from one new stake to the other (300 feet away). I could then mark off divisions in the property line along its length by measuring ten feet from the new line to the actual property line.
As has been pointed out, surveyors have GPS devices that cost a lot of money, and are accurate to 5 millimeters. We are not talking about inexpensive consumer units that tell you to turn left when the road curves right.
Doubtful. You would also need to hire the guy that knows how to use it. At that point, you have basically hired a surveyor anyway, so what's the point?
Interesting - didn't know that, and I think I'd quite like to get a copy anyway (whether it's useful or not), particularly if it's something that might be a few years old (we're on the central lot of what was once a farm, so have lots of farm buildings - but there were various ones that were pulled down before we moved in, so it'd be interesting to see an overhead view of the place before that happened)
I guess as the boundaries don't change they don't retake photos that often.
No joy there unfortunately - we're pretty much out in the wilds so it's an area where they haven't done high-res data yet. I'm kind of hoping they don't until after I re-roof the barn, then I can leave them a nice message on the top ;)
Well, the wooded area does extend maybe 100' into the next-door lot, but that's not too bad I think. I suspect if I do that to get my line close (it might wobble a bit) I can straighten it up once it's 'drawn'.
Uh huh. Of course if I were to put a fence through I'd need to do some chopping anyway :-) But I'll hold off on the fence as it depends who buys the lot (which may end up being us anyway) and it seems a shame to clear a path if it's not needed. Our dogs sometimes wander onto that lot though which is the only reason I might decide to fence it.
Oh, I disagree. I think hardcore DIY'ers have frugality as part of their DNA. They want to do it better for less than it would cost to have someone else do it.
I looked up some directions the other day on Google. I normally use mapquest, so Google dir. was new to me. I clicked on one of the camera icons, out of curiosity, and....lo and behold...there I was, the day I worked on putting some Bondo on the old Buick in front of the house :o)
I think you could do a good job with a cheap handheld GPS. The accuracy of these things is not great in an absolute sense - i.e. accuracy of finding a spot on the earth is +- 10 ft. But their relative accuracy is very good. This means they can find the same spot again very accurately. Test this by checking location of one marker, walk over to the other marker and check it's location. Then walk back to first marker - accuracy should be within a few inches. Similarly the GPS will be accurate between two markers for which it found the locations itself.
You would hold the GPS over each marker and record the latitude and longitude coordinates. Then the simplest way to compute the intermediate points is too select, say the mid-way and quarter-way points. You use the average of the coordinates for the midway point and then the averages of the midway and end points to get the quarter-way points. Then just walk along the line until the GPS says you are on the quarter-way and midway points. Pound in stakes there. It will be within a view inches accuracy.
You can greatly simplify the math if you set the GPS to use decimal degrees instead of degrees/minutes/seconds.
GPS does need a clear view of the sky to see the satellites. It won't work when the leaves are thick but it should see through the trees when the leaves have fallen. So from now to spring is your window of opportunity.
Note that you must keep the GPS within clear view of the sky tyhe whole time. You may lose the relative accuracy if you put it in the car and drive to the next marker. Again, you can test this by driving between the markers - if it finds each marker the second time with the accuracy you need then it is fine, if not, get out and walk.
So if you rented the GPS *and* the guy who knows how to run it at the same cost of as simply having the survey done, would you not be out in the woods holding the GPS with the guy looking over your shoulder (making sure you used it correctly)?
I know I would be. My curiousity would make me do it.
My guess is that they charge a lot more if you insist on "helping" them. And you really wouldn't be doing it yourself, anymore than following someone else around as they build your deck for you.
OK, we're picking the proverbial nit here, but your deck analogy doesn't match the situation I described.
You used "following the deck guy around" and I said the "GPS guy was looking over my shoulder". I would be doing it myself, but with his guidance, just as if I was holding the screwgun and the deck guy was telling me where to put the screw.
As far as "guessing" that they would charge more to let me help, keep in mind my original premise: I rented the GPS and the guy for the same price as getting the survey done. I wasn't suggesting hiring the survey company and then insisting that they let me help. This is a "side job".
Assuming the GPS was actually available for rent (and that may be the biggest obstacle) then it's extremely possible that the "guy" would be willing to make a few extra bucks on a Saturday afternoon by doing some free lancing. This is not such a far fetched premise. The GPS owner makes money on his GPS when it would otherwise be sitting on a shelf * and the "guy" makes some extra pocket cash.
I went to a 40th birthday party that was staged as a funeral (the end of the guy's "former" life). They paid a funeral home to park a hearse in the guy's driveway during the party. It was a Friday night, the hearse wasn't being used, so the funeral home made a little money on an asset that would have been idle.
I don't know the system surveyors use but the aforementioned FSA (Farm Service Agency) system works in one of two ways.
To lay out a field they start by downloading waypoints into a handheld device and then all they do is find the point(s) where the device registers a null deviation.
The specific points include all boundary corners and the (I presume internal) software provides the target for straight line(s) between those points.
Alternatively, the field technicians survey fields by simply driving to the boundaries of the area planted, say, and at each corner and along the way every so often "mash a button" and that records a set of coordinates. These are then uploaded from the device and converted into maps and acreages, etc. back in the office.
Doesn't seem much to it altho I've not actually pushed the buttons I'd presume their systems are similar.
Somebody else mentioned the 5cm/2in precision -- seems like I'd heard that kinda' numbers before but not positive whether that's really so for absolute position or only for relative. As noted above the quite-pricey (at least for DIY use) auto-track ag systems are about twice that. Of course, there's a lot of ancillary stuff besides the GPS system in those and impossible to back out what that alone would be. But, the software systems supporting it aren't giveaways I'm sure despite the fact it doesn't cost anything to duplicate there're non-insignificant development costs to amortize there...
Running a line between two end points that are equally offset from the corners should work fine. Just measure back the offset amount anywhere along the line to get the actual boundary. I have done it a number of times and come within a couple of inches of where subsequent surveys showed the boundary to be.
As a matter of fact, it does need a clear shot. The signal from the GPS satellites is not very strong, and leaves on trees is often enough to disrupt communication with a GPS receiver. Heck, even satellite TV dishes have trouble with leaves between them and the satellites they use.
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