Roof Shingles And Underneath Rubberized Layer ?

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says...

I felt sorry for the men that did my roof as they had to carry the shingles up the ladders. The roof is about a 10/12 pitch. Think that is what it is called. It is not a 45 deg angle, but close to it. I thought they may fall off, but they did ot use any safety equipment. Then did have a couple of ropes over the roof and I did see them gram them a time or two when they had a buldle of shingles over their sholder.
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On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 11:41:50 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Must be working for a really cheap and dumb company. Around here they typically use power lifts that work with a ladder and get the shingles up there easily. The cost of that lift would quickly pay for itself in productivity.
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On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 9:18:55 AM UTC-4, Bob wrote:

Answers to both a & b:
I don't think that "thickness" is the proper thing to be concerned with. I would think it's more important to ensure that it meets or exceeds specific industry standards and local code requirements.
Some info here: (my roofer used all GAF products as part of the GAF Lifetime Roofing System)
http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residential/Products/Leak_Barriers
The underlayment might need to be "associated" with the shingles used in order to ensure that all warranties are kept intact. It may be a money game, but some shingle manufacturers may not warranty their shingles unless their underlayment is used. In some cases, you might get a lesser warranty.
IOW, even if you find a barrier that is deemed the "best", your shingle manufacturer might not allow you use and also maintain your shingle warranty.

It will depend on the roof construction and the pitch. I think it's about 2 feet into the heated space for a "normally" pitched roof. However, I have a fairly flat section of roof over an addition and every roofer I spoke to quoted full ice barrier for the entire section. (The section is only about 12' x 16' so it was really only a couple of more strips than they would have used anyway. The peace of mind was worth the minimal extra cost.)
My reading has shown that full ice barrier on flat roofs is the norm. Is it a money grab? I don't really know.

First, depending on the shingle manufacturer, they may not use "felt", they may use a different type of underlayment. GAF uses Deck Armor:
http://www.gaf.com/Residential_Roofing/Roof_Deck_Protection/Deck_Armor/Deck_Armor_Brochure.pdf
AFAIK, most manufacturers want their barrier installed directly onto the deck. I have read some articles that claim that installing it over an underlayment makes it easier to remove at a later date (ice barrier has an adhesive backing) but the bottom line is to follow the specific manufacturer's instructions to ensure that the warranty stays intact.
I've also seen mixed messages on underlayment/felt *over* the ice barrier. Again, it may be specific to the "system" you and your roofer choose.

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On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 10:43:53 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Good point. When I said 2 ft into the heated space and not doing the whole section, I was thinking of a typical pitched roof. If you have one where it's at the low end of acceptable pitch, then I agree, using barrier on the whole section is right.
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On 4/18/2016 8:18 AM, Bob wrote:

Also know generically as ice dam barrier.

Check with your local building code. Around here it is required from the eave to three feet upward of the wall/eave line. That's the minimum coverage. No reason not to wrap the whole roof with it (excluding ride if you're using a ridge vent), if you want.

Find out what you local building code requires.
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On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 11:53:50 AM UTC-4, Moe DeLoughan wrote:

No reason other than cost.

There has to a balance between code, shingle manufacturer, barrier manufacturer, warranty, etc.
Wouldn't it suck if code voided the warranty? I'd be surprised if it did, but it sure would suck. Which would you choose? ;-)
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On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 1:49:12 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:

There are other reasons not to do the whole roof, which actually I think you touched on. Once you have that sticky rubbery sheet applied, it makes any future sheathing inspection, replacement, etc more difficult. With felt or similar, with a future tear off, you just rip it off and you can easily inspect and see the sheathing. Not so easy with a rubber sheet glued over the whole thing. I would not do the whole thing, unless like you said, it's a very low pitch roof. But cost is an issue, that barrier product is many times the cost of felt.
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On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 2:53:35 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:

Good point. I forgot my own good point. :-)
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Hi Bob,

I "think" Grace Ice and Water Shield was the original, but I would assume most brands are similar. I used IKO brand on my roof as that's what my shingle supplier stocked.

The ice and water shield should extend from the lower edge of the roof to a point that is 2-3 feet beyond the outside wall of the heated space.
Low slope roofs (less than 4/12 pitch) should be covered entirely with the weather membrane.
It's also wise to install it in the roof valley's to seal up any nail penetrations.
In cold climates, you should also use it along the edge of gable ends.
While not entirely necessary, I also used the membrane around major roof openings for our woodstove chimney flashing and plumbing vent.
There's no reason to cover the entire roof with the membrane, unless the roof is small enough that you might as well fill in the remainder of the roof after adhering to the above recommendations.

The weather membrane is self adhesive and applied directly to the wood decking. Roofing felt is not applied on top of the membrane, except where upper rows of felt overlap lower rows of membrane.
For the areas not covered with the membrane, I recommend using 30# felt. It costs slightly more, but is stronger and holds up better than the cheaper 15# felt.

Be prepared for sticker shock. :)
I paid $800 for our shingles in 2003 when we built our house. When I bought the exact same shingles in 2013 the price had ballooned to $4000!
Also, be sure metal drip edge is installed on all outer edges of your roof.
Good luck,
Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com
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On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 12:32:22 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:

What's the point to using it along the gable ends in cold? I don't see how ice damming, water backing up, can happen there. It also is only needed at the lower roof edges in cold climates, where ice damming can occur. In warmer climates, it's not needed at all.
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I have no idea, but most membrane manufacturers recommend it:
https://www.iko.com/publication/stormshield-brochure/wppa_open
http://tinyurl.com/hssmztf
http://tinyurl.com/hkbgu4r
http://tinyurl.com/z49p3zg
In a cold climate, I suppose you could get ice damming on the gable end overhangs, and that water could make it's way sideways under the shingles. Water has an amazing ability to get inside a home. :)
We live in a fairly warm climate and only have a 6" overhang on the gable ends. So I did not use the membrane along my rake edges. If I had membrane leftover I might have used it there, but I didn't want to buy a full roll just to do those low risk edges.

In addition to guarding against ice damming, it also seals around nails that penetrate the roof. That's why it's smart to use it places with high water exposure, roof valley's, dormer or chimney intersections, etc.
Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com
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if trump somehow deported all the illegals just ponder for a moment the disruption it would cause.
crops not harvested, roofs not done.
real americans will drive costs up exponentially. and building the wall?
mexico will never pay for it.......
trump will bankrupt america if elected
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On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 3:24:44 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:

It would be a huge disruption for sure if it was done in Trump's stated one or two year time frame. Even if done longer, without a guest worker program or similar, I agree there would be a lot of problems. But don't worry about it happening. Trump is blowing a lot of smoke up the asses of the Trumpies. He knows it will never happen and he would quickly compromise on it. He's already doing that, now saying that it's negotiable. Apparently he said a lot more to the NY Times a couple months ago, which is why he won't allow the transcript of that interview to be released. This problem is fixable, without smearing Mexicans as a bunch of rapists and similar rhetoric. But Trump has a scorched earth policy and he doesn't care about Mexicans, you, me or anyone but himself.
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