Reviving old NiCd batteries

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I'm interested in experimenting with trying to revive some old NiCd batteries by zapping them and I ran across this on YouTube. Good, clear video about using two other good NiCd batteries to revive the dead one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
8hHLyXAyQ
R
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I wonder if it works how much more life you get out of them. I saw this a while back when I had a driver/drill pack that went bad. Finally decided that for $20 I could get new batteries on Ebay and just rebuild it.
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wrote:

What the OP is talking about is using a low-impedance power source to burn open the whiskers that sometimes form on older NICAD batteries, especially when they are left unused and uncharged for long periods of time. Once the cells start whiskering, they almost always are prone for it to happen again, the best thing to prevent/stop this is to keep them permanently on a trickle charger. I have some very old nicads, perhaps 30+ years old, that I still use in some tools that I keep on trickle chargers. I know I am using power to keep them charged, but the convenience of always having the tools ready when I need them outweighs the small cost. When they were new, they were very expensive so that is another reason I hate to discard them.
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wrote:

Actually I've read just the opposite. That leaving them completely discharged is the best way to store them.
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wrote:

degrees F, and charged at least once a year. Never store the battery dead. NiMh batteries are a different story and can be stored long-term either dead or fully charged, According to both Sony and Duracell you may need to "reactivate" them by charge cycling - long term storage between -20 and +35 F, 50% RH.
DO NOT store dead with a load connected.
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On Jun 17, 9:27pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

And here's some sources that say they should be stored discharged:
http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial-NiCad.html
" When preparing to store NiCad batteries, be sure to discharge the batteries fairly deeply. The range in recommendations is between 40% and 0% charged when going into storage. "
http://www.saftbatteries.com/SAFT/UploadedFiles/Aircraft/PDF/tn1.pdf
http://users.frii.com/dlc/battery.htm
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wrote:

I would trust Panasonic more than some web site
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wrote:

Some website? One of those 3 websites was a tech data sheet from a $750mil manufacturer that gives a tech data sheet on storage for nicads used in aircraft. I think they would be considered a credible source. And they clearly say to store them fully discharged.
As for Panasonic, what you are apparently trusting is the previous posting of heresay regarding what Panasonic says or doesn't say on the issue. Many times people read what they want to read. If you have a link to what Panasonic actually says, or anyone that says they should only be placed in storage fully charged, I'd be happy to see it.
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 11:51:29 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Nicad batteries. These are vented, flooded cell batteries - like the lead acid automotive batteries of 20 or so years ago (and many up to this day). Totally different than sealed "dry" cells
As for Panasonic, see: http://www.powerstream.com/Storage.htm and :http://www.master-instruments.com.au/Data%20Sheets/NiCd%20Industrial/Panasonic%20NiCd%20catalogue.pdf
Both say to charge every 6 months to a year when in long term storage.
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On Jun 18, 3:32pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

You do realize that both don't count when one is just repeating what the other says, don't you? I agree that Panasonic is saying to keep them charged when in long term storage. There are plenty of other sources that say the opposite, to keep them discharged and I've also seen others that say it doesn't matter one way or the other.
Here's a competitor to Panasonic that says to keep them discharged:
http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/technical/1277751010_20106027-NiCdCatalog-Lo.pdf
It's on page 1.
I'm not saying which way is right on this. Only that there are differing opinions. It may also have something to do with the particular battery manufacturer's exact process and what company A says for their batteries may not apply to company B's. In my own case, I just don't worry about it at all because I think in the grand scheme it probably doesn't make much difference.
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 15:34:04 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

And PowerSonic does not differentiate between NiMh and NiCad batteries anywhere on page one..

shorted (obviously totally discharged first) - but they all emphasize that EACH CELL MUSTBE SHORTED SEPARATELY - meaning you cannot short a nicad BATTERY (or pack) - only a NiCad cell. Apparently a shorted dead cell does not grow the cadmium needles like an open circuit dead Nicad does.
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On Jun 18, 9:46pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Say what? As usual, you love to just make stuff up as you go. PowerSonic says nothing about each cell having to be shorted seperately in their battery manual. And if that were necessary it would obviously be pointless to put the statement recommending Nicads be stored discharged in the front of their technical manual that applies to all their batteries. How many of the batteries in that manual are single cell? Probably either none or almost none.
One of the two references you provided previously, that recites what Panasonic says, follows that with a quote from another source that says that Nicads can be stored either charged or discharged with no damage.
http://www.powerstream.com/Storage.htm
Which is consistent with what I've said from the beginning, that Panasonic's position is not universal and there are other credible opinions that differ. I have seen other sources that say if they are placed in long term storage and allowed to self-discharge, then when you go to use them again, it will take several full charge/discharge cycles for them to get back to full capacity. It's possible that is what Panasonic is talking about when they say that if they are allowed to self-discharge, it can lead to a decrease in performance. But, we really don't know, because Panasonic doesn't say exactly what the issue is.
I'm inclined to think it doesn't make much difference whether you store them charged or dischaged because if it did and storing them one way or the other made a big difference I would expect it would be easy to find lots of consistent info from most sources. Including right on the battery packaging they come in, yet I've seen no such info. One thing is for sure. Storing them either discharged or not doing anything is a lot easier and practical than Panasonics recommendation to keep charging them every 6 months when in storage.
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On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 07:24:26 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

I did not say powersonic said that., did I? I said , and I quote," There are also other references that talk about storing Nicads shorted "

And ALL I said was "panasonic says"

this is far from definitive, I'll admit - batteries that have been left without a charge for more than 4 months were DEAD when I went to use them - and if I left them for a year, in most cases they were shorted when I tried to recharge them. A good ZAP would make them take a charge, but the next time I needed the tool, the battery was invariably dead again - and often again had at least 1 shorted cell. On the one unit that I used on a semi-regular basis - charging every couple of months - the battery lasted about twice as long before failing.( I got better than 4 years out of that one drill battery - whils the other drills and the saw ALL failed within 2 years.
I just finally threw all the drills away and bought a Lithium powered drill. I still have the recip saw - but the batteries are pretty well shot after having been rebuilt once. Won't waste my money on a second go-round.
Personally, I've pretty well given up on NiCads.
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On Jun 19, 3:45pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

m> wrote:

I've used a Milwaukee driver drill that's 20+ years old and used the nicad battery pack in that very rarely, maybe once every 2 years. Just put it away in whatever condition it was in when I was done. Over the last 10 years, the charge level it would hold decreased, but it was still enought to do the limited amount of work I used it for. At 20 years, I was still getting 5 mins or so of work out of it. Last year, when I went to use it, it would not hold a charge at all. So, I bought new batteries on Ebay and rebuilt the pack.
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On Jun 18, 8:46pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

If you short an individual ccell, the volatge is force to zero. If you short a battery pack, you may actually put a reverse voltage on some of the weaker sells. They don't like this at all!.
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On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 08:10:00 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) snipped-for-privacy@att.net"

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On Jun 19, 3:45pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

m> wrote:

If that is correct, then how can you be saying that those that say to store Nicads discharged recommend doing it? You've contradicted yourself. But it doesn't matter, because I've already given you several sources that say to store them discharged, all are clearly talking about more than one cell, and none of them say what you claim.
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On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 05:09:06 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

several sources are saying - and if you store them shorted they MUST be shorted individually - which means storing batteries - not cells, SHOULD be done charged.
Yes, you will find all kinds of recommendations - many of which will contradict each other. And yes, you may get away with storing batteries (not cells) dead and open circuit - and you might get away with storing totally dead batteries (not cells) shorted - but it is not recommended "best practice" and the gremlins are out there waiting for you. Storing "dead" batteries shorted CAN cause cell reversal - and cell reversal is NOT good for the battery, or the individual cell. Same with single cells - storing dead and open circuit might work for you - but it is not "best practice"
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On Jun 20, 1:42pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

.com> wrote:

You keep going back and forth here. You seem to imply there is agreement from many sources. When that doesn't pan out, then you claimed you were just citing what Panasonic says. I'd like to see the several sources that you have which say the above. IMO, it sounds crazy because from a practical standpoint, virtually all the nicads we deal with are going to be multiple cell. And I gave you several sources, including manufacturing Power-Sonic that say to store them discharged. I highly doubt PS expects you to tear apart the battery to discharge and then short each cell individually.

What makes it "best practice". Just because Panasonic, one manufacturer, recommends it, doesn't mean that is absolute and correct. As I pointed out, Panasonic does not even explain what their concern is. Other sources that say to store them discharge say that if they are stored charged and allowed to discharge, it may result in them having to be cycled several times later to get them back to holding a full charge. For all we know, that temporary issue is what Panasonic is talking about. The sources I've seen that go into the technical details of how the batteries work tend to say that they should be stored discharged. And again, if what you claim above is true, it would be pretty stupid for them to keep stating that they really mean you must tear open the batteries and short each cell individually.
Again, from the start, I said there are a variety of opinions out there. For some reason, you seem to believe only Panasonic. That's fine, you can do as you want. The only issue I have is you keep trying to make it sound like that is the only right way and Panny's opinion is golden.

You're the one who brought storing batteries shorted into the discussion. The sources I provided that talk about storage say to store them discharged or partially discharged.

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On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:07:19 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

charged than flat and open circuit - and better flat and open circuit than flat and shorted for a battery - better flat and shorted for a single cell.
You don't have to agree with me, but that's what I've always been taught - and from what I gather from the very limited information on the net, nothing has changed my mind.
Long term CELL storage - drained and shorted Long term BATTERY storage - DO NOT SHORT. If you cannot store drained and shorted (which is not practical for a BATTERY of cells,) store charged - and recharge every few months.
As usual, you are free to store YOURS however you want. And it's a free world - you can agree with me, or you can dissagree with me. So far nothing YOU can cite proves me wrong.
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