Replacing 1 15 amp Receptacle With 1 20 Receptacle

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Sorry not posting for hours on this subject, I got called into work :(
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snip>> What makes the situation unsafe for the OP is that should he install the 20 amp outlet, he then has the capability of connecting a 20 amp device to a circuit with a 20 amp breaker, but the wiring in the circuit is only rated for 15 amps.
He currently has three outlets on the 15 amp wire, which allows him to plug in several devices simultaneously causing an overload of the conductors, regardless of the outlet ratings

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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

You don't need to buy a higher ampacity receptacle to get higher quality. Any quality that is available in a 20 amp receptacle is also available in a 15 amp one.

http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.php?product_item_number0183200136&gclid=CIa68dHK-4cCFQjqYAodamF2Gw
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On 15 Oct 2006 10:24:21 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

I have one of those it's easy to use. When you first plug it in, it shows the line voltage. That's make it easy to check for voltage drop from load. Press one button and you're measuring current used by the attached appliance.

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Do you mean a recepticle rated for 20amps, or one with a 20 amp plugin? The 20 amp plugin has one of the blades turned 90' (See
http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/product/112879_front200.jpg )
You should *NOT* install one of those 20 amp plugin receptacles unless you know that the whole circuit is on 12 gauge wire and on a 20 amp breaker.
Now, if you want to just user a higher rated standard outlet (See
http://www.electronicsoutfitter.com/images/items/17312-102-5325-wsp.jpg ), that's fine.
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On 15 Oct 2006 10:24:21 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

And what kind of wire do you have in the walls? If it is 14 gauge you are just looking for trouble. 19 or 20 amps WILL overheat 14 gauge wire. Why have fuses and circuit breakers at all if you're going to encourage the use of loads that are bigger than the wire can handle?

You might not be planning to use bigger stuff, but what about your teen-age son, your brother in law, your wife, your father and anyone doing anything when you are out of town, out of the house, in the hospital, dead, or have sold the house to innocent but unskilled people.

I agree that he should get the rest of it checked. He might want to check with owners of other houses built by the same builder. If problems are not too many and not too big, maybe they can let the original electrician fix them.
My high school in 1963 came with a one-year warranty, and the school system people were supposed to check things out soon after occupying the building. Only because a truck hit a light pole and we lost power one day did they learn that the emergency lighting was done all wrong. There was supposed to be a back-up generator that ran one ceiling fixture in every interior room, but some rooms had no lights, and some exterior rooms had them instead. And I don't think the emergency generator went on at all. And some other problems. I'm almost sure the original electric company was allowed to do the repairs. Don't think there was any graft involved, just screw-ups.
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mm wrote:

And just what makes you jump to the conclusion that if the wire is 14 gauge that it's NOT protected by a 15 amp breaker?
If it is, you could plug in a 30 amp load and the wire is still protected, 'cause the breaker will open the instant you plug in too great a load.

If you can

Same comment as above.

Simplest thing for him to do if he can't get at enouch of the cable jacket to see what's printed on it is to bum a couple of inches of 14 gauge and 12 gauge wire someplace and compare the conductor sizes to what he's got coming from that 20 amp breaker. The difference is pretty obvious.
<snipped>
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On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:34:31 -0400, Jeff Wisnia

I didn't jump. This is part of the original post "The particular circuit I want to change out has a 20 amp breaker coming from the box using a 14 gauge wire to, 1 15 amp GFI receptacle & 2 15 amp receptacles in the kitchen."
More below.

Well, I was thinking the problems may not be limited to gauge. Anyone who would put in 20 amp breakers with 14 gauge wire can't be trusted to do anything right.

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mm wrote:

In explanation of my tweaking you on that point; Your post, which I replied to, was NOT a direct reply to the OP's post, where he certainly did write that it was a 20 amp breaker.
Your post was a reply to a post by "mgkelson" in which he simply said he used 20 amp recepticals as replacements for 15 amp ones, because he felt the 20 amp ones were "higher quality". He said nothing about the breakers on those circuits being 20 amps.
It's easy to lose track of who said what on extended multiforked threads like this one, I do it all the time.
Peace,
Jeff
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 12:24:46 -0400, Jeff Wisnia

You're right. I did lose track of who said what.

To you, peace.

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As others have said, all kitchen outlets are required to be on 20 amp circuits, it is Ok that the receptacles are 15 amp as long as there is more than one outlet on the circuit. The cable should be 12 gauge. If your appliance has a 20 amp plug on it, it requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit and outlet

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ZZ wrote:

Does your expresso machine have a 20-amp plug on it or a 15-amp plug? If it has a 20-amp plug on it and you have 14-gauge wiring, I wouldn't plug it in to your electrical system no matter what sort of socket you have.
What is the electrical rating of the expresso machine? You can usually find the electrical rating on the bottom or the back of the machine.
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It will be a 20 amp plug.
It is supposed to draw up tp 18 amps
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ZZ wrote:

This is all sounding rather odd . . . "will be a 20 amp plug" . . . "supposed to draw". How do you know it's supposed to draw up to 18 amps? If memory serves, UL will not approve an appliance that draws more than 16A on a 20A circuit, yet you have an appliance that supposedly draws 18 amps.
Is this some sort of a homemade device? Even commercial expresso machines only take about 1700 W (or 14 amps). Here's an example:
"Cecilware Venezia Automatic Espresso Machines w/ Volumetric Flow Control VAE-1 CEC-VAE-1 $3,150.00 Touch Pad Control Panel. Makes Single or Double Espresso; 1 or 2 cups at a time. Double gauge for boiler and pump pressure control. Hot water dispenser. Extra long movable steam wand. Water inlet valve. Built-in motor pump with in-line filter. 4" adjustable legs. Pod filter adapter included. European style to fit every decor. Number of heads: 1 group. 19.5"L. 120V, 1.7KW, 20 amps. Makes 240 cups/hour. Boiler size: 7 quarts."
What's the make and model number on your expresso machine?
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Here is the information on it: http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/laspaziales1
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Something else no one appears to have pointed out. You problem is bigger than just making sure that you have a 20amp outlet on a 20amp breaker with 12 gauge wiring. Since this one appliance requires almost all the capacity of that circuit, it means you really can't have any other loads on other outlets on that circuit. In other words, it will likely need it's own circuit.
However, from the description, it appears that this model can be used in a mode where only one heater is active at a time, meaning it will work on a 15 amp circuit. If you can live with it in that mode, it could funciton on a 20amp circuit with some room for other loads. They also have a 15 amp model, which I'm guessing is basicly the same thing, but hard wired wo that it only runs in that one heater at a time mode.
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Good point.
Even though there are multiple receptacles on the 1 20amp circuit, nothing else will be populating the other receptacles, other then maybe recharging a cell phone or the coffee grinder.
What will draw the most amperage will be using the espresso machine to pour a shot & steaming at the same time, other then that it should not go over 15 amps
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ZZ wrote:

That's interesting. I don't know a thing about Expresso. Can you put ordinary Folgers coffee in it and then get a fast cup of coffee?
It looks like someone has actually done a power spread sheet on that appliance. You can get it at: http://www.rimpo.org/s1/S1Power.html .
They show a maximum current draw of 16.67 amps. However, they indicate a 12% fudge factor, so it might be rated at 16 amps maximum. As I said, I think that's the maximum UL allows.
I'm not an electrician, but I would guess that you are perfectly legal with installing a 20-amp socket on a circuit with 12 AWG wire and a 20-amp breaker. You do have to be careful that you don't run other stuff on the circuit, of course. I would periodically, maybe once per month or so, put your hand on the plug to make sure that it's not generating a lot of heat. If and when that happens, I would replace the plug and the socket.
Send me a cup of that coffee. I'm curious to know what it tastes like.
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On Oct 16, 1:27 pm, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

You can put an unlimited amount of 16 amp appliances on one 20 amp circuit. The problem comes in when you try to use them at the same time. I am guessing that that all but the warmer on the espresso machine would not be used more than 20 min a day.
If you want espresso and toast and want to use the microwave at the same time then you should consider having more circuits.
Trying to do all of this at the same time is not unsafe. It would just trip the breaker.
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On 15 Oct 2006 22:32:37 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Is this the best example. It says only 1700 Watts, but it also says 20 amps. :(

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