Proper way to determine which GFCI circuit breaker is the correct replacement for the current breaker

All,
I have a pool light that is not up to code according to the pool guy. He sa ys that I need to update the electrical box by adding a GFCI circuit breake r for the pool light circuit. So I opened up the electrical box and found t he breaker. These are the details:
Circuit breaker: 15 Amp, D type HOM, 10kA 120/240V, Issue no. DP-4075, HACR Type. And there are some other markings that I'm not sure matter.
Main breaker load center: I'm not 100% sure though it is a square D homelin e much like the following, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-100 -Amp-20-Space-20-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-with-Cover-Value-P ack-HOMVP5/100197589
And here is my question, I purchased a replacement gfci from home depot and I would like to make sure that I got the right one. My understanding is th at these breakers are very standardized so as long as it fits and it is by the same manufacturer all should be well. The only thing that I've heard is that it should trigger at the 5mA current threshold as opposed to 100mA. B elow is the link to the home depot page for the GFCI breaker and here are a few facts about it.
Square D Model # HOM115GFICP Homeline 15 Amp Single-Pole GFCI Circuit Breaker Specifications read: "Class A denotes a ground fault circuit interrupter th at will trip when a fault current to ground is 6 milliamperes or more. This breaker is compatible with Homeline load centers and CSED devices."
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-15-Amp-Single-Pole-GFCI-Circui t-Breaker-HOM115GFICP/100153356
Please let me know if I've done my homework and if I've purchased the corre ct GFCI breaker. I've looked at installation instructions online and it loo ks simple provided that you take proper precautions such as working on dry footing, and definitely making sure to turn of the main power.
Thanks!
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On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 1:10:26 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote :

says that I need to update the electrical box by adding a GFCI circuit brea ker for the pool light circuit. So I opened up the electrical box and found the breaker. These are the details:

CR Type. And there are some other markings that I'm not sure matter.

ine much like the following, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-1 00-Amp-20-Space-20-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-with-Cover-Value -Pack-HOMVP5/100197589

nd I would like to make sure that I got the right one. My understanding is that these breakers are very standardized so as long as it fits and it is b y the same manufacturer all should be well. The only thing that I've heard is that it should trigger at the 5mA current threshold as opposed to 100mA. Below is the link to the home depot page for the GFCI breaker and here are a few facts about it.

that will trip when a fault current to ground is 6 milliamperes or more. Th is breaker is compatible with Homeline load centers and CSED devices."

uit-Breaker-HOM115GFICP/100153356

rect GFCI breaker. I've looked at installation instructions online and it l ooks simple provided that you take proper precautions such as working on dr y footing, and definitely making sure to turn of the main power.

What else is on that circuit besides the pool light? The current breaker is rated for motor loads, "hvac", the replacement is not. If you have a pool pump on it too, etc, then it might trip during start up. But since it's just a single pole, I'm guessing it's probably just the lights, maybe some outlets, in which case you're fine. 5 ma vs 100ma, never heard of a GFCI breaker that trips at 100ma, that's so high you could be dead.
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On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 10:41:34 AM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:
te:

e says that I need to update the electrical box by adding a GFCI circuit br eaker for the pool light circuit. So I opened up the electrical box and fou nd the breaker. These are the details:

HACR Type. And there are some other markings that I'm not sure matter.

eline much like the following, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline -100-Amp-20-Space-20-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-with-Cover-Val ue-Pack-HOMVP5/100197589

and I would like to make sure that I got the right one. My understanding i s that these breakers are very standardized so as long as it fits and it is by the same manufacturer all should be well. The only thing that I've hear d is that it should trigger at the 5mA current threshold as opposed to 100m A. Below is the link to the home depot page for the GFCI breaker and here a re a few facts about it.

r that will trip when a fault current to ground is 6 milliamperes or more. This breaker is compatible with Homeline load centers and CSED devices."

rcuit-Breaker-HOM115GFICP/100153356

orrect GFCI breaker. I've looked at installation instructions online and it looks simple provided that you take proper precautions such as working on dry footing, and definitely making sure to turn of the main power.

Thank you very much. I am not sure though I think that the pool light and s ome outlets are the only items in the circuit. Actually, there may be a gar age opener as part of the circuit as well. Just for my reference, 1. how could you tell that the current breaker is 'hvac'? 2. would there be single pole GFCI breakers that are rated for motor loads and if so would you provide a sample link with one?
Much appreciated.
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On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 3:03:44 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote :

rote:

He says that I need to update the electrical box by adding a GFCI circuit breaker for the pool light circuit. So I opened up the electrical box and f ound the breaker. These are the details:

, HACR Type. And there are some other markings that I'm not sure matter.

omeline much like the following, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeli ne-100-Amp-20-Space-20-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-with-Cover-V alue-Pack-HOMVP5/100197589

ot and I would like to make sure that I got the right one. My understanding is that these breakers are very standardized so as long as it fits and it is by the same manufacturer all should be well. The only thing that I've he ard is that it should trigger at the 5mA current threshold as opposed to 10 0mA. Below is the link to the home depot page for the GFCI breaker and here are a few facts about it.

ter that will trip when a fault current to ground is 6 milliamperes or more . This breaker is compatible with Homeline load centers and CSED devices."

Circuit-Breaker-HOM115GFICP/100153356

correct GFCI breaker. I've looked at installation instructions online and it looks simple provided that you take proper precautions such as working o n dry footing, and definitely making sure to turn of the main power.

some outlets are the only items in the circuit. Actually, there may be a g arage opener as part of the circuit as well. Just for my reference,

s and if so would you provide a sample link with one?

The "HACR" on the old breaker indicates it was for motor loads like those found in HVAC. Did a bit of googling and it looks like while breakers were required to go through additional testing for eqpt with motor loads like HVAC to get the HACR rating they determined that all breakers were passing it anyway and the reqt no longer exists. So a GFCI breaker that is listed for use, ie compatible with your panel will be fine whether it has the pool pump on it or not.
Also, some comments were made about the installation not being done competently. That would be true if GFCI was required at the time it was installed, but not if it's an old pre-GFCI pool. Certainly is a good idea to put one in.
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On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 3:36:34 PM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:
te:

wrote:

y. He says that I need to update the electrical box by adding a GFCI circui t breaker for the pool light circuit. So I opened up the electrical box and found the breaker. These are the details:

75, HACR Type. And there are some other markings that I'm not sure matter.

homeline much like the following, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Home line-100-Amp-20-Space-20-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-with-Cover -Value-Pack-HOMVP5/100197589

epot and I would like to make sure that I got the right one. My understandi ng is that these breakers are very standardized so as long as it fits and i t is by the same manufacturer all should be well. The only thing that I've heard is that it should trigger at the 5mA current threshold as opposed to 100mA. Below is the link to the home depot page for the GFCI breaker and he re are a few facts about it.

upter that will trip when a fault current to ground is 6 milliamperes or mo re. This breaker is compatible with Homeline load centers and CSED devices. "

I-Circuit-Breaker-HOM115GFICP/100153356

he correct GFCI breaker. I've looked at installation instructions online an d it looks simple provided that you take proper precautions such as working on dry footing, and definitely making sure to turn of the main power.

nd some outlets are the only items in the circuit. Actually, there may be a garage opener as part of the circuit as well. Just for my reference,

ads and if so would you provide a sample link with one?

Thank you very much for the replies. I'm attaching a photo of my panel with out the cover to give you a better idea. I am thinking of having an license d electrician take care of this though I want to know how it works. I could easily replace the breaker but I'm not sure (though there is no other way) whether shutting off terminals 17&19 will be sufficient since there are th e cables at the top of the panel. I'm sure those feed the sub panel but I a m not super comfortable messing with this setup...
https://drive.google.com/open?id zEC_oKODULNNWM3Ty1PaTcyZUk
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On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 8:24:02 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

rote:

om wrote:

guy. He says that I need to update the electrical box by adding a GFCI circ uit breaker for the pool light circuit. So I opened up the electrical box a nd found the breaker. These are the details:

4075, HACR Type. And there are some other markings that I'm not sure matter .

D homeline much like the following, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Ho meline-100-Amp-20-Space-20-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-with-Cov er-Value-Pack-HOMVP5/100197589

depot and I would like to make sure that I got the right one. My understan ding is that these breakers are very standardized so as long as it fits and it is by the same manufacturer all should be well. The only thing that I'v e heard is that it should trigger at the 5mA current threshold as opposed t o 100mA. Below is the link to the home depot page for the GFCI breaker and here are a few facts about it.

rrupter that will trip when a fault current to ground is 6 milliamperes or more. This breaker is compatible with Homeline load centers and CSED device s."

FCI-Circuit-Breaker-HOM115GFICP/100153356

the correct GFCI breaker. I've looked at installation instructions online and it looks simple provided that you take proper precautions such as worki ng on dry footing, and definitely making sure to turn of the main power.

and some outlets are the only items in the circuit. Actually, there may be a garage opener as part of the circuit as well. Just for my reference,

loads and if so would you provide a sample link with one?

thout the cover to give you a better idea. I am thinking of having an licen sed electrician take care of this though I want to know how it works. I cou ld easily replace the breaker but I'm not sure (though there is no other wa y) whether shutting off terminals 17&19 will be sufficient since there are the cables at the top of the panel. I'm sure those feed the sub panel but I am not super comfortable messing with this setup...

I'm not sure what your exact setup is. Is this a new panel that in turn feeds via that old cloth cable an old panel, which is now a sub panel? What is ahead of this panel? A main breaker/disconnect, maybe outside? Or is this a subpanel to a main panel?
One curious thing is that on the lower left there is apparently a 240V circuit with no ground that's driven off two single pole breakers. That should be on a double pole breaker and should have a ground, if the circuit was installed in contemporary times.
To put the GFCI in, you just need to replace whatever breaker is there now and connect the white neutral wire from the GFCI to the neutral bar. There is no disconnecting means at this panel, so you'd have to turn off the power back at wherever the disconnect is. If you're unfamiliar with how to do this work safely, then an electrician would be a good idea.
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In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:23:52 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

If this is the main panel, shut off the main switch on it, the one you think is the main switch, and that should shut off all the power in the house. If nothing in the house works, even when you turn it on, you can be pretty sure you shut the power off. Shut off anything you turned on, even if it didn't go on. Pay special attention to whatever the gfci controls.

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On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 1:10:26 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote :

says that I need to update the electrical box by adding a GFCI circuit brea ker for the pool light circuit. So I opened up the electrical box and found the breaker. These are the details:

CR Type. And there are some other markings that I'm not sure matter.

ine much like the following, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-1 00-Amp-20-Space-20-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-with-Cover-Value -Pack-HOMVP5/100197589

nd I would like to make sure that I got the right one. My understanding is that these breakers are very standardized so as long as it fits and it is b y the same manufacturer all should be well. The only thing that I've heard is that it should trigger at the 5mA current threshold as opposed to 100mA. Below is the link to the home depot page for the GFCI breaker and here are a few facts about it.

that will trip when a fault current to ground is 6 milliamperes or more. Th is breaker is compatible with Homeline load centers and CSED devices."

uit-Breaker-HOM115GFICP/100153356

rect GFCI breaker. I've looked at installation instructions online and it l ooks simple provided that you take proper precautions such as working on dr y footing, and definitely making sure to turn of the main power.

I know you didn't ask, but...
If the pool light (lights?) are not GFCI protected, are you sure that any n earby receptacles, equipment, etc. are?
Do you know who it was that didn't know enough to install the light (lights ?) properly and are you confident that they did everything else correctly?
I just want you and yours to be safe.
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Put in the new gfci and see if it works!!!!
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On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 10:10:26 AM UTC-7, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrot e:

says that I need to update the electrical box by adding a GFCI circuit brea ker for the pool light circuit. So I opened up the electrical box and found the breaker. These are the details:

CR Type. And there are some other markings that I'm not sure matter.

ine much like the following, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-1 00-Amp-20-Space-20-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-with-Cover-Value -Pack-HOMVP5/100197589

nd I would like to make sure that I got the right one. My understanding is that these breakers are very standardized so as long as it fits and it is b y the same manufacturer all should be well. The only thing that I've heard is that it should trigger at the 5mA current threshold as opposed to 100mA. Below is the link to the home depot page for the GFCI breaker and here are a few facts about it.

that will trip when a fault current to ground is 6 milliamperes or more. Th is breaker is compatible with Homeline load centers and CSED devices."

uit-Breaker-HOM115GFICP/100153356

rect GFCI breaker. I've looked at installation instructions online and it l ooks simple provided that you take proper precautions such as working on dr y footing, and definitely making sure to turn of the main power.

We just moved into the house and I received zero information about who did what. So I really don't know if things were done properly though it looks l ike the people that lived there did take care of it. I realize that this ca n be dangerous so I'm going to go as far as I feel comfortable. If anything does not make sense I will call in an electrician and have it done by him/ her.
On a side note, I just noticed in one of the pictures that terminals 17 and 19 are labeled as 'main'. Literally there is a square mark to the left of terminal 17 and 19 and in between it reads 'main'. Does that labeling mean anything to anyone and if so, what?
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Don't you have any handi-type neighbors??
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On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 10:10:26 AM UTC-7, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrot e:

says that I need to update the electrical box by adding a GFCI circuit brea ker for the pool light circuit. So I opened up the electrical box and found the breaker. These are the details:

CR Type. And there are some other markings that I'm not sure matter.

ine much like the following, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-1 00-Amp-20-Space-20-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-with-Cover-Value -Pack-HOMVP5/100197589

nd I would like to make sure that I got the right one. My understanding is that these breakers are very standardized so as long as it fits and it is b y the same manufacturer all should be well. The only thing that I've heard is that it should trigger at the 5mA current threshold as opposed to 100mA. Below is the link to the home depot page for the GFCI breaker and here are a few facts about it.

that will trip when a fault current to ground is 6 milliamperes or more. Th is breaker is compatible with Homeline load centers and CSED devices."

uit-Breaker-HOM115GFICP/100153356

rect GFCI breaker. I've looked at installation instructions online and it l ooks simple provided that you take proper precautions such as working on dr y footing, and definitely making sure to turn of the main power.

As always thank you all for all of your help. I did a bit more homework yes terday and traced the whole circuit. This house is new to me and I've got a bunch of projects running in parallel. Anyway, here is how it is laid out:
Power line arrives on the roof and it is fed into the following box. I thou ght that this was a circuit breaker box but it turns out that it has a sing le breaker. I assume it cuts off all power.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzEC_oKODULNSV8tVkNvOVcxMkU/view?usp=sha ring https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzEC_oKODULNZjRuMjlUTC14b28/view?usp=sha ring https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzEC_oKODULNT1BHRXE5dlZWZ28/view?usp=sha ring
This box runs back to the roof and later back down into the original box th at I asked about. In the picture below this line is coming from the top int o the electric panel.
https://drive.google.com/open?id zEC_oKODULNNWM3Ty1PaTcyZUk
And the wiring according to the labels are as follows:
1. Spare 2. empty 3. empty 4. Pool (must be the pump) 5. empty 6. empty 7. empty 8. empty 9. empty 10. Pool (must be the other pump for the solar heater) 11. empty 12. Pool lights 13. PLAGS 14. Spa 15. PLAGS 16. Spa 17. sub 18. AC 19. sub 20. AC
There is another panel inside the house that has the labels for Oven, micro wave, dishwasher, etc. It looks fairly new. And it must be this panel that is being fed by terminals 17 and 19 above, I think.
So in order to replace the breaker I think that all I have to do is shut of f the power at the first box and replace the breaker simply adding the whit e line anywhere to the neutral bar on the right, yes? Just a few more quest ions assuming the above is correct:
1. would you recommend testing this panel once I shut off power? I have a v olt meter and I take it that I could test the points between the right bus and the right neutral. If the read is 0 then I'm good to go? 2. can you guys please confirm if the breaker that I got is the right one? I don't recall anyone confirming explicitly. 3. If the install goes to plan and the light works, is there any way to tes t if the light is grounded? The light is under water so pardon my lack of i magination but I'm not sure what else can be tested.
I plan on getting an electrician for some other projects but for now I thin k that if the first panel shuts off power I can do this project myself.
Thanks!
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On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 4:09:06 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Yes, that's the main breaker/disconnect for the house.

Yes, that;s correct.
Just a few more questions assuming the above is correct:

I'd test between both incoming hots and between each incoming hot and the neutral. Obviously whatever loads are all connected should go dead too.

It's for a Square D Homeline panel and that's what you say you have and you're replacing a 15A with a 15A, so that's it.

If the breaker trips when you push the test button, it's working. The light should be grounded properly from when it was installed, but the GFCI doesn't even need a ground to work. It works by comparing the current flowing out on the hot to the current returning on the neutral and if they aren't equal, it trips. The problem you might possibly find would be that it trips when you turn it on. If there is any moisture in the light, in the connection boxes, etc, and there is a little leakage current, it will trip, as it should.
The code was also changed a few years ago so that pool pumps also need GFCI, but that only applies to new installations, you don't have to update what you have.

What is that PLAGS circuit on the two breakers on the lower left that I pointed out before? It's a 240V circuit, with no ground and each breaker is separate. Presumably it was some old circuit that was wired into the new panel? I'd get a handle tie to connect the two breakers. You don't want someone working on it turning only one off and thinking the load is no longer energized.
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On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 6:18:05 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:

After I made the last post, I realized there is one more step here. That's the problem when you're telling someone how to do it vs just doing it yourself. :)
The breaker that is there for the pool light now only has a hot connection. The GFCI breaker has two neutral connections. One is the wire that you correctly talked about connecting to the neutral bar. The other is a screw terminal for the neutral coming from the load. You need to remove that pool light neutral from where it's connected on the neutral bar and connect it the the neutral terminal on the GFCI.
This all gets back to how it works. With a regular breaker, the breaker doesn't care about the current coming back on the neutral. With GFCI, it needs to be able to compare the hot current with the current returning on the neutral. So, that neutral current has to come from the load, through the GFCI breaker and then go to the neutral bar.
And then I think things take a turn for the worse. After realizing this, to guide you through it, I went back and looked at that pic of the panel again to see where the pool light neutral is. Take a look at the two neutral bars. The one on the left only has the outgoing feed to the subpanel connected to it. The right one has just two wires. One, the heavier one, is for the spa. That leaves just one neutral for the circuits for 3 breakers, which you think are:
pool pump solar pool pump pool lights
So, something here ain't right. The only thing that would make some sense would be if the pool pumps are actually 240V motors, which is very common. In that case, they don't need a neutral and the one neutral would be for the pool lights. But if that's the case, IDK why the motors would be on two separate breakers a mile apart in the panel, instead of the way they should be, ie one double pole breaker. The two breakers for the pumps are on opposite legs, so it could be and hopefully is a 240V circuit. From what I'm seeing now, unless I'm missing something, this looks like amature hour by whoever did this and your best bet is probably to wait and let the electrician figure out what's going on.
BTW, does that spa have it's own GFCI? IF not, there should be a GFCI breaker for that in this panel too.
Funny how something so simple became so much more complicated. Maybe others here will have comments as to what they think is going on.
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On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 6:18:05 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote: ...snip...

...snip...
This is something I like to toss out every couple of years just for fun and to be a PITA. ;-)
The statement above is not entirely correct. In reality, it should read:
"If the breaker trips when you push the test button, it worked."
As soon as we reset the breaker, we have no idea of it's working or not. If we test it again 2 seconds later, then we know that it *was* working, but we still don't know if it *is* working after we reset it. The only thing we know for sure is that it worked when we pressed the button. That in no way ensures that it will work when we actually need it to.
Why do they suggest that we test our GFCI's once a month? Is it to make sure that they will trip when a hazard exists? Not really. The best we are able to determine is that the GFCI would *not* have tripped if a hazard existed. If it doesn't trip when the test button is pressed, odds are it wouldn't have tripped if a hazard occurred. However, the fact that it does trip when the button is pressed does not guarantee that it won't fail between that test and the hazard.
If they never failed while just sitting there, why would we even need to test them? We test them to see if they have already failed, not to see if they will work when we need them to.
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