OT: Texas to EPA: "That stinks"

[Misifus]

What, on Earth, have your been drinking?

-Raf

[Misifus]

Gee, would the government tell a fib? Can we trust OSHA to be fair and accurate?

I'm not saying that CO2 won't suffocate you, just that OSHA and EPA are hardly unbiased sources.

-Raf

[cj]

story away

cj

[Caesar Romano]

On 09 Aug 2010 21:50:07 GMT, Han wrote Re Re: OT: Texas to EPA: "That stinks":

Let's assume for the sake of argument that the above is true.

So what? What's wrong with a warming earth?

The earth has gone through many periods of cooling/warming in the past few million years. That's what causes "ice ages" to emerge and recede. What difference does it make what causes it: be it volcanoes or human activity as a whole?

Neither one is controllable.

[Douglas Johnson]

I'd really be interested in any serious study that suggests this is true. Do you have any pointers? Thanks, Doug

[Han]

Caesar Romano wrote in news: [e-mail]:

What difference does it make? it is really very simple. Warming would raise ocean levels. Then it takes a lot to keep cities from flooding. For instance ost of Florida is as flat as a pancake and little more than a few feet or so above mean high tide. Of course storm surges need to be protected against too. Some years ago a storm at the time of a "spring high tide" flooded portions of Manhattan. A strong storm at the

31 january 1953 spring high tide flooded portions of Holland and London, giving rise to the Dutch Delta Works and the London Thames storm barrier. It's amazing to see how large a fraction of the world's population lives in areas that would inundate when sea levels rise. Hardly anyone is preparing for this. Likely it won't happen while my teeth can still hurt me, but they are getting very old ...

[HeyBub]

Oh bother. It won't happen overnight and the cost of moving the coastal Florida cities fifty miles inland would be a pittance compared to trying to significantly curtail carbon emissions.

Has anyone actually figured out how much the sea level would rise?

Best I can find is this: If ALL the land ice in Antarctica melted, the oceans would rise about 61 meters. If all the Greenland ice melted, add another seven meters. All in all, about 220 feet.

Scary.

But the average temperature of Antarctica is -37C. A global temperature rise of even ten degrees means Antarctica remains frozen. In other words, no amount of temperature increase predicted, or even contemplated, will make one iota of difference in the land ice of Antarctica.

[HeyBub]

No, I don't. I just remember than an increase of a few degrees would increase the Canadian growing seasons, allowing three crops of some grains instead of two.

There are MANY more deaths attributed to cold weather world-wide than those caused by higher temperatures. I don't know of any tabulations.

[Jim Elbrecht]

So are you just making that up? I"m guessing the 5000 Russians that have died from this summer's heatwave might throw even your made up numbers off a bit.

Jim

[Han]

"HeyBub" wrote in news:ws2dnffZdc434_zRnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

The point, HeyBluBlub, is that even a rise of 10 ft would make many coastal cities either uninhabitable, or in need of costly water defenses

- see Holland.

[Douglas Johnson]

Which explains why our northern friends are shipping us all that oil sand oil. On the other hand, Houston doesn't need to get any hotter.

-- Doug

[HeyBub]

If the land ice if Antarctica doesn't melt, all we have to do is worry about the land ice in Greenland. If it ALL melted, sea levels would rise 20 feet. If half melted, we'd be at your ten foot mark.

As for the Dutch being jeopardized, they could move to Greenland. And grow grapes.

Since 1990, the sea level has risen 0.13mm (how they can measure this small an increase is beyond me). At that rate, it would take 192 years for the sea level to rise one inch!

To prevent that looming "catastrophe," there are those who would have us lives lives that are painful, brutish, and short.

[Kurt Ullman]

How much of that was additional to the usual background noise. Also, the news articles seem to indicate that this is more related to smoke and respiratory deaths from the wildfires. We had droughts long before carbon was a problem.

During 1999--2002, a total of 4,607 death certificates in the United States had hypothermia-related diagnoses listed as the underlying cause of death or nature of injury leading to the underlying cause of death (annual incidence: four per 1,000,000 population) according to the CDC. That works out to about 1100 or so deaths a year. CDC for hyPERthermia shows that during 1999--2003, a total of 3,442 deaths resulting from exposure to extreme heat were reported (annual mean: 688). So, yeah, it would seem more from too cold.

[Caesar Romano]

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:24:32 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote Re Re: OT: Texas to EPA: "That stinks":

I think I understand now. If the world ocean levels were to rise say

10', the places like New Orleans, New York, Miami, Boston etc would be destroyed.

So what's the problem?

[RBnDFW]

Made-up numbers and "fact by consensus" are the coin of the global warming realm, it seems. But warming and cooling cycles are a fact of history. The only issue is how much mankind influences that. The alarmists say "A whole bunch" and the real scientists say "not so much".

[Han]

Caesar Romano wrote in news: [e-mail]:

The drinking class would have to learn to swallow ...

[HeyBub]

A few years ago, as I recall, 7,000 Frenchies died during a heat wave in Paris. But who's counting French and Russians.

And no, I'm not making it up. I read it on the internet.

Specifically:

In heat waves, deaths due to cardiovascular problems increase. This is more than offset by upper respiratory problems found during cold waves.

"...there are from ~5-15X more deaths due to Cold, than due to Warm Events."

"The average number of deaths attributed to cold is 770 yearly, substantially higher than the number attributed to heat (Kilbourne, 1997)."

"Demographically speaking, cold is actually a far bigger killer than heat. In the Northern Hemisphere, the Grim Reaper makes more house calls in December, January, and February, while-this year's statistically anomalous summertime mortality excepted-he tends to take time off during July, August, and September ." And so on.

[HeyBub]

Doesn't matter. Fran Liebowitz (a New Yorker) once observed: "The outdoors is something through which I pass between my apartment and my car." That's what we do in the Bayou City.

We in Houston didn't build the first air-conditioned sports stadium to be ostentatious - it was required. (Interestingly, the Astrodome is now idle. They do keep the A/C on else the building would have its own thunderstorms.)

[Don Klipstein]

Global temperatyure changes are uneven across the globe. The poles change more, and the tropics change less.

Lately, warming has been disproportionately in and near the Arctic, in part from polar areas changing more, and in part because a set of multidecadal oscillations has shifted heat northward over the past 30 or so years.

Historically, when the globe was 7-8 degrees C warmer than it is now, there was no thick polar ice. Last time the world was approx. 3 degrees warmer than it is now (~95,000-100,000 years ago), most of Greenland's ice melted, although Antarctica's ice survived.

Then again, the way global climate sensitivity is looking to me, even getting CO2 up to 600-700 PPMV would only make the world about 1.5 degrees C warmer than it is now. Some of the "positive feedbacks" reported by IPCC are looking very much overestimated.

[aasberry]

And then there is all that methane from eating grass and twigs.