OT: Show of Hands

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Has anyone changed their minds on the gun control issue? I have not, I'm still a supporter of the constitution and second amendment.
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Per Ashton Crusher:

I would like to hear a panel of experts discuss why civilians not being allowed to procure semi-automatic rifles or pistols would be such a hardship.
I expect there are some reasons, and could postulate a few myself - but I'd like to hear them discussed by people who know.
The ban on civilians owning fully-automatic weapons and hand grenades seems to have been effective long-term - so I'm guessing other bans are practicable - of not necessarily desirable.
--
Pete Cresswell

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On 1/1/2013 1:11 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

I'd accept a ban on civilians owning any guns at all. What I wouldn't accept is a ban on law abiding civilians owning guns while leaving illegal guns in possession of the bad guys.
An unenforceable gun ban hurts only the good guys. You can't take guns away from the bad guys any more than you can enforce a drug embargo. There's just too much money to be made.
And there's a way to test this. Just make it illegal for convicted felons to own guns and take them away. Wait...we already do that... Guess there really aren't any repeat offenders.
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I wouldn't -- because any such ban inevitably results in what you describe below:

The problem is that "the bad guys" won't obey the law.

Exactly so.

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On Tue, 1 Jan 2013 21:38:58 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller

Including "the bad guys" in government.

There is also the issue of defending your home from a break in. With a gun, advantage homeowner. Without, advantage thug.
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On 01-01-2013 17:35, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Not necessarily. The burglar, if he's smart, may have the advantage of surprise.¹
> ..... Without, advantage thug.
Not necessarily. I have the advantage of knowing the floor plan² and what is stored where.
¹If he's smart, though, he'll do it when no one is home.
²Except in those neighborhoods that have only one repeated floor plan.
--
Wes Groleau

“Brigham Young agrees to confine himself to one woman,
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On Wed, 02 Jan 2013 01:07:53 -0500, Wes Groleau

No, "BANG. Surprise!"

And laying in wait. With a gun. I certainly don't want to mix it up with someone breaking into my house. I *WANT* an"unfair" advantage.

If he's smart he isn't breaking into homes. Irrelevant.

Irrelevant when your life is on the line.
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wrote:

What nonsense. It's pretty easy to deduce the floor plan of just about any house from the outside Just look at the doors and windows
More difficult with modern apartments that typically have plate glass fronts A bit easier with older apartments which have distinctive windows for different rooms.
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I'd like it legal for anyone to own guns (while not incarcerated). But, illegal to shoot others, or shoot at others.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
wrote in message
And there's a way to test this. Just make it illegal for convicted felons to own guns and take them away. Wait...we already do that... Guess there really aren't any repeat offenders.
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I wonder why that hasn't been tired yet....
On Tue, 1 Jan 2013 17:11:46 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

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On Tue, 1 Jan 2013 17:11:46 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

Kinda makes self defense moot, no?
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Would you say the gvt can do that without violating the second amendment? Or are you suggesting the second amendment be removed?

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On 1/1/2013 2:40 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

I'm saying that if ALL guns were to vanish from the face of the earth, and never come back, the world would be a much better place. If only some of the guns vanish...not so much.
Doesn't have anything to do with the second amendment. One might argue that guns are a bigger problem where they have no second amendment, or first, or working government at all.
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I don't buy your premise, either. Self defense isn't needed only against someone with a gun.

It *certainly* does, even "if".
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wrote:

Actually, it would not be such a "better place". We'd be back to the equivalent of the middle ages You need to think some more about the consequences of what you wish for.

You need to start thinking about the OTHER "unintended consequences" of your fantasy. I have no desire to return to the dark ages where size and strength were a far bigger factor in who ruled whom.
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On Wed, 2 Jan 2013 09:47:26 -0600, " Attila Iskander"

UK has much higher rates of violent crime then the us. They do have less homicides with guns. Which are you more likely to be a victim of? A violent crime rate of 500 per 100,000 compared to a homicide rate of 5 per hundred thousand. You chances of being a victim of a violent crime are 100 times greater then of being shot and killed. How many of you live in fear of being the victim of a violent crime? Whatever your level of fear of that is, you can reduce it by a factor of 100 when it comes to getting shot. And realistically, unless you live in the criminal parts of town, or regularly are doing drug deals or fencing hot merchandise, your chances of getting shot are almost infinitesimally small. Yet the media can whip up enough hysteria about it.
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Per Ashton Crusher:

When I was attending a family reunion in the UK I was struck by my cousin's need to lock and chain a rather cheap bicycle even though it was stored in his locked garden shed.
When we used to visit the in-laws in Germany (small town close to Limburg)I was struck by the prevalence of iron bars and gratings over windows. Certainly not all windows.... but where we live in the Philadelphia PA suburbs, such things are unknown.
Bottom line, I got the impression that residential theft was much more prevalent in the UK and Germany.
--
Pete Cresswell

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wrote:

Statistics are hard to keep track of but one I saw said 60+% of home invasions in the UK occur with people home but only about 15% of them occur with people home in the US. Might be because the criminals have no fear of being shot in the UK but they are worried about it in the US.
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and never come back, the world would be a much better place. If only some of the guns vanish...not so much<<<<<
If ALL guns (or weapons) vanished then the world would be dominated by young, strong, physically violent criminals.... try peeling the onion a bit.
Single variable experiments seldom happen in the real world. :(
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Interesting that they didn't interview those that didn't make it past their encounter with armed victims. ;-)
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