OT -- pure gas

Page 2 of 3  
On 11/3/2010 7:59 AM, George wrote:

There's not NEAR as much of this so called "water" in peoples tanks as what most would have us to believe. And besides, water lays on the bottom and is rarely pulled into the system even when it is present. There sure as hell would never be enough to actually freeze in a tight spot and cause a problem.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Steve Barker wrote: ...

Well, as long as one doesn't get a tankful from a station that has had a water intrusion or other mishandling, generally true...
Used to be far more common than is now but certainly has, does and will continue to happen on occasion. Particularly was more of an issue w/ carbuertors than fuel injection owing to the cooling caused by evaporation...
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Which really didn't have ANY causitive relationship to the amount of water in the fuel. Old carbureted vehicles generally had open vented tanks. Virtually no fuel injected vehicles have open vented tanks.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 09:50:06 -0500, Steve Barker

guess. Frozen gas lines have long been a curse in cold humid areas.
Still a very real danger in the aviation world, where the general aviation fleet averages well over 30 years of age, and all fuel systems are fully vented.
When my friend bought his cherry 1946 Aercoupe this summer the tanks were likely less than half full - the plane had been sitting about a year, and he drained several quarts of water out of the tanks. ( drained ALL the gas out and had to flush several times with clean fresh gas before no more water could be found in the test samples)
(the source of some good hooch free gas for the snow blowers this winter after all the water is settled out)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 11/3/2010 7:58 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

52 yrs. in eastern kansas. Not the coldest spot on the planet, but we do go below zero now and then. I've never had a fuel related issue with a gasoline engine in the winter.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 21:11:17 -0500, Steve Barker

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

The REAL reason is the evap control systems on today's cars. The tanks are not vented to the atmosphere, so you do not get moist air drawn into the tank in the evening when the tank cools off, and the moisture from that air therefore does not condense into the tank. Condensation due to temperature change making the tank "breath" is the major source of moisture in vehicle fuel tanks - and sealed/controlled vent fuel systems eliminate that source.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 11/3/2010 1:51 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

The the whole point of the E is to REDUCE the amount of O (oil) we use. And if it can be done for the same price (or less) , or even a bit more, then why not? I burn E85 in my flex fuel vehicle every chance I get. Yes, it does get 25% less mileage, but the cost of the fuel is usually 20 - 30% less than the regular gas at a given time.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Steve Barker wrote: ...

The problem is that w/ flex-fuel and the 10-15% blends vehicles can't be tuned specifically for the ethanol blend. It's possible for specific fuel to get essentially equivalent mileage but not and burn a mix...
--
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 11/3/2010 9:54 AM, dpb wrote:

The fords detect the amount. I don't notice any mileage difference with the 10% i get now and then. Most of what i buy (if not E85) is pure gas. Every now and then i get a fill up at caseys and it's 10%.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 11/3/2010 10:54 AM, dpb wrote:

I don't think an engine can be tuned to get equivalent mileage since ethanol has less energy per unit volume than gasoline. That is the primary reason fuel economy goes down as the % of ethanol goes up.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
George wrote:

Wrote to try to be concise at cost of accuracy..."tuning" isn't really the idea, it's much more radical design modifications.
Ethanol has higher octane rating than gasoline and so can use much higher compression ratios which combined w/ other ethanol-specific features can offset a significant portion of the Btu density loss.
The overall key is whether the net $/mile is as good as or better than competition, not purely on raw mpg. If ethanol blends are less costly then the actual outlay may be equivalent or less. Some studies indicate that E85 may actually win on that basis even w/ current flex-fuel vehicles.
As noted earlier, when (or if) there is enough inertia developed that the infrastructure is developed to the point to make the price differential sufficient w/o the tax credit in the long term is still TBD. And, of course, it depends on what happens to oil prices--if they remain stable then it's a tougher road...
Mostly it's a perception thing--we all grew up w/ gasoline and its particular energy density and so a comparison to ethanol is favorable for it in our mindset. _IF_, otoh, it had turned out that gasoline wasn't as energy dense as it is, then we'd be thinking ethanol was a miracle fuel...
--
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

But only because of the subsidies.
--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to
koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 11/3/2010 10:01 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:

OK. even if these so called subsidies existed (which i don't believe for a minute) Then ok.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

The hidden cost of ethanol is at the grocery store. Have you seen what feed prices are or bought a box of cereal lately? We are burning food in our car driving up grocery costs. There is not much you eat that doesn't have some corn content somewhere in the chain.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Farmers get about 20% of the amount consumers pay at the store. A breakdown here: > http://tinyurl.com/24tpgw9 More info here: > http://tinyurl.com/2fnnv9e It's commonly accepted among the farmers I know that ethanol processing doesn't affect the feed value of corn. The leftovers (distillers grains) make good feed. I don't know if the accepted wisdom is dead accurate though. There used to be charts online of various foods comparing prices farmers received with what consumers paid. I couldn't find any of those offhand this time. The closest I could come was this link to the National Farmers Union > http://tinyurl.com/2dkqdqh Right under the headline Farmer's Share is a link to a PDF showing consumer cost vs. farmer income. I didn't know how to post that here directly.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
<...snipped...>

We do not have a free market in this country and it is because that is what business interests want, not because of government. Other than to the extent that the money from business interests controls government policy.
--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:29:38 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

the corn, and then the ethanol from the corn. If it did, it would be a simple matter to switch to ethanol to fuel the equipment and the still.
The problem is the feed stock. CORN is not the right, or even sensible product from which to produce ethanol, particularly as a fuel to reduce oil dependancy, because corn requires huge amounts of ammonia fertilizers - the production of which requires HUGE amount of natural gas or petroleum......
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 21:08:30 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

The other issue is water. Corn needs a lot of water and we will run out of water long before we run out of oil. The Ogalalla aquifer that supplies most if the midwest where the corn comes from is dropping several feet a year. That is "fossil water" and when it's gone, it's gone too. It will take centuries to recharge.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote the following:

Not to worry. Global warming will provide more fresh water than we can ever use. We'll be swimming in it, or drowning in it, one of the two.
--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.