Off and Pop for changing sockets

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On Monday, December 1, 2014 12:26:29 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Shoot, now I've used my whole lunch hour googling this stuff and have to ge t back to work. But it's interesting.
If I'm understanding correctly, at your standard residential 200 A panel, t he utility company will be happy to give you a fault current of 22,000 Amps . If your 15 - 20A breaker operates correctly within a half cycle, it will pass only 3400 to 5000 amps before opening.
If it doesn't operate quickly, that device Stormin built just became a bomb . Which he's confidently holding in his hand. Guess he didn't need that h and for anything else.
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The power company was negligent. If this story is to be believed.
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On Monday, December 1, 2014 1:32:30 PM UTC-5, Pico Rico wrote:

Why is the power company negligent? OSHA is very clear, if you pull a mete r to cut the power, you must tag it out. Any licensed electrician would kn ow that. The power company would not have put a meter back in if there wer e a tag hanging on it. (meter bases are hard to lock, so a tag is acceptab le) If there were a tag, and the power company put the meter back on, they would be toast - clearly in violation and fully liable. But with no tag, and the meter belonging to them, they can do what they want. There is a sa fety issue to an exposed meter base.
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On 12/1/2014 1:31 PM, Pico Rico wrote:

Doesn't everyone walk around and turn breakers on, and push meters back in?
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On Monday, December 1, 2014 1:57:22 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Unfortunately, yes they do.
That's why the law requires lockout tagout, and why qualified professionals would do it anyway. Your guy who pulled a meter and left it lying there for the next mischievous person to pop it back in was in violation of the law, and frankly being stupid.
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On 12/1/2014 2:30 PM, TimR wrote:

anyway.

I know of at least one or two "turned the power back on" stories. One, I stopped doing volunteer work for the church woman. Two, guy was working for me, and I fired him on the spot. Third was told to me, a guy at a radio station walked past and pushed on a coupe big disconnects. The worker felt the electric, and was far enough away that he lived to go beat the stuffing out of the guy (station manager) who turned the power back on.
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On Monday, December 1, 2014 2:59:22 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Funny, that never happened to me.
Oh wait, I always put my own lock on the disconnect.
Seriously, that kind of incident is impossible if you follow the lockout tagout rules.
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On 12/1/2014 3:15 PM, TimR wrote:

I deal with some better idiots. I assure you, it is possible.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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Why is the power company negligent? OSHA is very clear, if you pull a meter to cut the power, you must tag it out. Any licensed electrician would know that. The power company would not have put a meter back in if there were a tag hanging on it. (meter bases are hard to lock, so a tag is acceptable) If there were a tag, and the power company put the meter back on, they would be toast - clearly in violation and fully liable. But with no tag, and the meter belonging to them, they can do what they want. There is a safety issue to an exposed meter base.
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Common sense. How hard would it be to ask?
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On Monday, December 1, 2014 1:46:47 PM UTC-5, Pico Rico wrote:

I find it hard to believe a power company would find a pulled meter and just shove it back in either. And if they did, I'd agree it's negligence. If it's out power has been turned off in a major way, and obviously intentionally. Aside from someone working on the system, or having it torn apart and left in God knows what state, even at a typical residence, you have the possibility of stover burners, electric heaters, etc being in the on state.
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On Monday, December 1, 2014 5:53:43 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

Yeah. Pics or it didn't happen.

It was 100% negligence and incompetence on the part of the supposed electri cian who pulled it and didn't tag it. On the part of the power company, no t so sure. Who knows? Could have been the boss was in the building, didn' t know the crew was working, called the power company to complain when his lights went out. It's REALLY easy to have that kind of miscommunication, t hat's one of the reasons the law REQUIRES a tag.

Suppose they put it back in and burn the building down. That electrician w ould be liable for sure, having failed in his duty to tag it. Maybe the po wer company would share some blame, maybe not.
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On Monday, December 1, 2014 8:19:52 PM UTC-5, TimR wrote:

not so sure. Who knows? Could have been the boss was in the building, did n't know the crew was working, called the power company to complain when hi s lights went out. It's REALLY easy to have that kind of miscommunication, that's one of the reasons the law REQUIRES a tag.

power company would share some blame, maybe not.
Of course, there is a likely reason NOT to tag the meter, if the electricia n were competent enough to know he was required to.
He did not have permission from the utility company to pull the meter, whic h is their equipment. And he had not bothered to pull a permit for the wor k he was doing. Strictly Joe's Garage amateur hour, in other words.
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On 12/1/2014 8:24 PM, TimR wrote:

enough to know he was required to.

And he had not bothered to pull a permit for the work he was doing. Strictly Joe's Garage amateur hour, in other words.

Ah, the speculation. Why does the fly walk on the ceiling? Why does the blade of grass grow towards the north? Why are power sockets made of ivory?
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Monday, December 1, 2014 8:35:48 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yes, it's pure speculation.
Do you have a better idea for why he didn't tag it out? Other than incompe tence? Surely you know pulling a meter and leaving it on the ground is not standard practice. The meter lugs are hot, by the way, and any kid coming by could have killed himself.
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On Monday, December 1, 2014 8:19:52 PM UTC-5, TimR wrote:

not so sure. Who knows? Could have been the boss was in the building, did n't know the crew was working, called the power company to complain when hi s lights went out. It's REALLY easy to have that kind of miscommunication, that's one of the reasons the law REQUIRES a tag.
Note: The fact that there was negligence on the part of one party, doesn't mean that there was not also negligence on the part of another party. For example, someone could be crossing a street, not paying attention, distracted because they are on their cell phone. That's negligence. Someone else comes along driving their car while eating a burger and fries and while the pedestrian is easily visible, they run the m over. That's also negligence.
In the case you cited, I agree with Pico. There is clear negligence on the part of both parties. Anyone, especially the power company employees, would hav e to be an idiot to just find a pulled meter and shove it back in, without be ing told to do so by the customer, checking with someone in the building, etc. I can't imagine that's power company policy anywhere.

power company would share some blame, maybe not.
I'd say you'd quickly find that the power company has policies that govern what it's employees are supposed to do when they find a random pulled meter and that the procedures were not followed. Even failing that, I think you' d find any fair jury would quickly come to the conclusion that anyone, and especially the power company, that just shoves a meter back in, when they know nothing about why it was taken out, how it got that way, didn't talk t o anyone involved with the property, etc, is in fact negligent.
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On 12/2/2014 7:17 AM, trader_4 wrote:

I'd think it would make sense to at least walk in to the affected building, holler hello, and ask if they knew their meter was out.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 8:03:56 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I would have done that. Of course, we don't know that they didn't, and the electrician was on a lunch break or had run back to the shop for parts. Another reason to follow the law and tag it out.
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wrote in message

that does not excuse the power company's negligence.
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general maintence. All the power was off and locked out like it should have been. To calibrate some instruments instead of disconecting them and running a drop cord to them, one of our nuckle head electricians decided to back feed them from another source of power. This was a 120 volt AC line. He did not only power up the one thing he wanted, but put power on lots of other things that other electricians were working on. Shocked the fool out of another person.
I don't know why our company put up with this fellow and another one that was just about as bad, but I would not let either one of them change the battery in a one cell flashlight. They blew out about a dozen new light bulbs one day. I don't recall exectally what kind,but something like they put some 200 watt mercury vapor lamps where sodium vapor bulbs were suspose to go. The did have the right wattage and voltage and the bases fit, but there is a differant kind of ballast used.
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On 12/1/2014 4:47 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Yow, sounds like there was more than one of those type of people. Thanks for the field report.
Power company guys used grounding straps on wires "believed to be cold". I can see a use for ground straps in this kind of situation.
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