Network and telephone cables?

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I want to put a network jack and a telephone jack in the same location. Does a CAT6 cable have enough wires for me to do this or do I have to run a CAT3 cable too? Thank you in advance for all replies.
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Cat6 has enough wires but personally I'd run two cables. I'd be worried that the ring signal would generate crosstalk.
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And AFAIK it's perfectly acceptable to run two Cat6 rather than use old school phone wire - that is, Cat6 works fine as phone cable. That way the cables can be repurposed for phone and/or network just by changing the jack and punchdown at each end. (assuming, of course, that the phone and network are both terminated in the same area and/or a "structured wiring" panel.)
If I were wiring a new house, I think I'd put in a SW panel in the basement, then run two Cat6 and two RG-6 to each room. That way I'd have phone, network, cable, and antenna available everywhere.
nate
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On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 05:01:39 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc

Second
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On 3/8/2011 7:09 AM, Daniel Prince wrote:

The idea of split pairs isn't used much anymore. For various reasons including both gigabit Ethernet and PoE use the formally spare pairs.
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I use the same CAT 5 cable for both phone and data in my house. Data only uses two pairs, phone gets a pair I used to run a fax machine on it too. Never had a problem.
Jimmie
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re: "Data only uses two pairs" I believe that is only true for 10BaseT and 100BaseT - if you are using gigabit ethernet - and I would assume that the OP is, or is planning on it sometime in the future, otherwise he wouldn't be spending the extra $$ for Cat6 - that will use all four pairs.
nate
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No problems mixing signals over CAT5 or 6. Our office is wired exactly that way; CAT5/6 handles voice, fax, and data just dandy, all at the same time, and all in the same cables.
Additionally, if you look at larger installations, all cables of all kinds are often zip-tied into a single bundle. So evidently the pro's don't have any issues with interference either.
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Tegger

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On 3/8/2011 11:40 AM, Tegger wrote:

It has to do with the varying twist of the pairs. When I run a certification test on network cables, the separate pairs check out at different lengths then I get an average length from the test equipment. If you run a Cat6 Gigabit connection, all four pairs are used for the data as opposed to only two pair when a 10/100 connection is used. Good wiring practice demands that no cable ties are cinched real tight on any network cables or bundles of network cables. Sharp bends in Cat5/6 can also alter the signal capabilities of the network cables. I can test a length of network cable with my certifier, get a good reading then make a sharp 90 bend in the cable and it will fail the test.
TDD
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wrote:

Yeah, when I put mine in I never dreamed of gigabit though-put. Still cant see it in a home installation. Where I work if we need more than what CAT 5 can handle we go to fiber.
Jimmie
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I've seen many large-company installations with cable ties reefed as tight as they'll go, and with sharp bends around corners. I've often wondered if their employees have network problems.
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Tegger

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On 3/8/2011 6:05 PM, Tegger wrote:

Often they don't even realize it. The mechanism built into network interfaces to correct data errors is pretty robust. So often "see it works" is declared when something is plugged in and they can ping some other device not realizing how crappy the throughput is because of the amount of error correction needed.
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On 3/8/2011 5:05 PM, Tegger wrote:

Me and a helper spent 6 hours 50 feet in the air at a Sam's Club one night so we could trace out a fiber optic cable from the second floor server room at the front of the huge store all the way to the back so we could find a switch that corporate IT had no idea of its location. From the switch we had to find a wireless access point 320 feet away on a Cat5 cable to troubleshoot it. All that trouble was caused by a goober improperly installing an RJ45 plug 50 feet in the air! I find silly crap all the time that keeps a network from communicating. My favorite is when somebody tries to see how far they can stretch a Cat5 cable. Pull it hard enough and it will stretch, it kind of messes up the impedance of the cable but they made it fit. :-)
TDD
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On 3/8/2011 2:28 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

going OT somewhat: I've wanted to run audio through my house. Different old amp/speaker in each room. There are different ways to do that and I don't know what would be best. Balanced out through Cat6/5/3?
Jeff

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If you mean low level high impedance audio? You need to use shielded, not regular twisted pair. You can get shielded twisted pair for balanced low level. It's used for pro audio. I have not seen it with 2 pair which is what you need for stereo. You might have to run two sets. Also you can't really just keep on splitting low level high impedance, you need a distribution preamp. Plus very little home audio gear uses balanced, most of it uses unbalanced with rca jacks. Running that stuff any distance usually results in all sorts of ground loop problems.
All that is probably why most whole house audio systems rack mount some amps and run speaker level out around the house. Then use low resistance rheostats as volume controls in each room.
If you want economical good speaker wire to do your whole house get a roll of that 12g black low voltage cable for outdoor lighting. It's polarized, you just have look at it closely to figure it out.
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On 3/9/2011 8:47 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:

Actually I meant low impedance balanced.
You need to use shielded,

For lack of a better plan, just a bunch of DIP TL074's (or whatever audio opamps are common now) running separate transformerless balanced outputs with a volume control on each input. Converting back to unbalanced is unresolved but at least the amp I want to drive the electrostatics has XLR inputs. Don't they have A3F to rca's anymore? A little transformer based adaptor can't be that bad?
Plus very little home

I agree. No intention of doing that. But I don't want to buy a lot of pricey pro audio cable either. Not sure what I do have. Wouldn't even CAT3 work?

Ouch.
Hmmm, 12? I'll look for it.
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Yep, it's 12 gauge fine stranded. Usually has ribs or a square side for polarization. The only difference between it and speaker wire is the insulation is black.
Maybe you ought to look at audio over ip. There's a lot of stuff out there now and some of it is wireless. Plus you can do video the same way and some devices are supporting both. Rip all your audio content to a hard drive on a pc. Lossless if you like.
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On 3/9/2011 9:33 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:

Good stuff.

That is in the mix, but I assumed it would be pricey, at least the little bit I've seen was. Wireless would be perfect.
A quick Google search yields a morass. Any products or places to buy?
Plus you can do video the same

What about bandwidth? MP4?
Jeff
Rip all your audio content

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On 3/9/2011 7:12 AM, Jeff Thies wrote:

You can always get an amp with a 70 volt output or get a transformer to take the 8 to 4 ohm output of a mono or two for a stereo and run a 70 volt distribution system throughout the house on small wire and a little 70 volt to 8 ohm transformer for each speaker. The parts to do this are relatively inexpensive and big wire isn't necessary. I probably have the stuff laying around to do it with along with enough left over Cat5.
TDD
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On 3/9/2011 10:49 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Thanks, but I'm not thinking of an even audio throughout the house. I'm thinking of a different audio environment in each room. I've got some bad stuff I'd like to put back in use. I've got a monster amp to drive the big electrostats, and I've got an old tube amp to drive some 12" bass reflects. Some old Altec 421 15's and horns I could run outside, if I felt like lugging it out there and had a party on. Just want to have some fun without getting so involved it never happens!
Jeff
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