2500 watt Coleman. An hour of furnace at bedtime sure made life a lot more comfortable. Not sure what I'd do with all of 8 or 12 KW.
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Which has little to do with what one needs for an emergency generator. It's not the service that counts. It's what you chose to have powered during a power loss. I have 200A. I did fine with a 6KW. A friend has 300A. He got by fine with a 4500KW generator during Sandy. Enough to run two furnaces,
I guess you and I are just simple folk. :) It's the old rule where you can get usually get 90% of what is important for not all that much, but it costs a LOT more to get that other 10%. We've figured out we can still live comfortably on 2.5 - 5KW.
Actually, I was amazed at how little it takes to run most things. Before investing in a genset, the first thing I'd recommend is buying a $25 KillaWatt meter and doing some measuring. For example, I bet a lot of folks here don't realize a fridge of the last decade or so only pulls
90 watts running. And then you have CFLs that pull very little.
The KAW meter is a great idea, except that it won't measure the biggest loads that don't unplug or run on 220. You can get most of the info with a stopwatch and the utility meter as you switch stuff on and off.
Some people can live with a candle under an overpass, too.
Whoopee. I had over a megawatt at the last tower site I worked at. A half meg was for one station, the other was five FM stations, the forestry service, 60 trunked radio base stations and the FBI's regional base stations. We kept over a week's supply of diesel on hand at all times.
Some people have more needs than others, but an asshole like you just likes to damn them. Try having elderly, ill relatives in the home. More than one.
You're the only one who is stupid enough to do that in a home, but it's done for humidity control in some commercial buildings.
yawn................... I repaired the controls after a lightning strike, repaired their gate controls, installed a new master TV antenna system and their C-band Satellite TV system. I guess that you've never know any multi millionares with a nice home. Or were trusted enough to be on their property. The last I heard was that they had closed the nursery and were cleaning the land to build 500 new homes, self financed. Well, it looks like the widow sold the land to Centrex after he died:
He and his wife also owned the number one country nightclub in Orlando for a couple decades:
Actually, it was a private residence that was next door to a few thousand acre nursery. Both had their own electric services & wells. The house was three story and had an elevator that ran on three phase. Let's see you run that with your toy. They also had six other houses on the property that existed when they bought other large farms. Each of those had their own electric service as well. They were all rented by people who worked at their nursery.
You don't need to keep reminding us of your claim to fame.
I went for a month without gas service in Ohio after the old line ruptured. Nothing but a 500 space heater blowing under the bed at night. I wouldn't leave it on while I was at work, and I was working doubles seven days a week.
house was built. Hell, I lived in one house that was built before water, gas, sewer or electric was availible. It still had four chimneys for coal stoves, and was built prior to 1868.
I live in FLorida right now. There is no natural gas service around here. Just lots of Propane companies.
I have a heat pump. It hasn't been used in years. Instead, i use electric heat for a couple rooms. It cost me about 1/3 2hat it cost to heat the entire house with the heat pump.
those old furnaces depended on air leaks to replace what went up the flue.
There is a huge world outside of New Jersy.
The propane dealers refuse to use a condom, or lubricant.
It was an old Army vet who died of cancer. He was one of the first soliders to report to Ft Rucker, as well as the first group of MPs stationed there. He was a gentleman even though he was , with a sharp mind.Any more stupid questions?
That was SW Ohio, where 90+ days in the summer were the norm.
Not me, not now. I would sit in my briefs and sweat in a 64 degree room when a VA doctor screwed up my medication, and had me on a low sodium diet. It damn near killed me.
I've lived in places where it was over 100, and others that were well below 40 below.
Gee, and here the rest of us thought we were talking about an emergency generator for a house.
They each need a seperate furnace? Appliances? Sump pump?
Having joined a major silicon valley company in the early 80s, and spent 17 years there, I know quite a few. I know one really, really well.
Now we're getting to your pay grade.
Wow! They owned a whole frigging country nightclub in Orlando? Why didn't you say so sooner? Now I'm really impressed! Is that what needed 400 amps in an outage? To run that big old honking disco ball?
LOL. You must think we're really dumb here. We have residences around here that are three story and have an elevator. And let me assure you, it does not take a 400A, three phase service to run an elevator, fool. In fact, they don't require anything extraordinary at all. Nothing more than a stove or central AC. You really don't have a grasp on power issues at all, do you? But feel free to keep digging yourself a deeper hole. It's amusing.
Who the hell cares. Just further proof that you've commingled a business, multiple residences and God knows what else into one abortion, then pretend a house needs 400A three phase.
when the house was built. =A0Hell, I lived in one house that was built bef= ore water, gas, sewer or electric was availible. =A0It still had four chimn= eys for coal stoves, and was built prior to 1868.
The OP is in NYC. And just because YOU don't have nat gas in YOUR area of FL, doesn't mean it does not exist. I know it's available in many areas of FL. I've been there and used ranges for example.
Thanks for the non-response. Anyone can heat a room or two with electric cheaper than a whole house. But we were talking about electric heat versus gas heat for a whole house, were we not? This is alt.home.repair, isn't it? Not alt.room.repair?
Who the hell cares. Around here they are typically located in the basement. Those gas furnaces were still far cheaper to operate than using electricity for heat. What, is everyone stupid that lives in NY? In ME? OH? IL? PA? About 95% of the heat in those places is nat gas, propane or oil. Very, very little is electric heat. Some small percentage is heat pump/gerothermal. And today when one of those old gas furnaces goes out, you see anyone replacing it with electric heat? They almost always replace it with another gas or oil unit.
Yes and almost all of it is *not* using electric heat. Geez, even in FL they use heat pumps.
Yes, what the hell does that have to do with anything? Because some vet died of cancer sitting in a house that's
60F means what? That's typical? normal?
Sure and he had to have the house at 60F on those days. Yeah, I believe that. And in planning for a generator you have to factor that in. That someday, somtime, you might get cancer. Not just any cancer, but the special kind where you have to have it 60F all the time, even when it's 90F outside
You keep bragging about that, but there's really no need. it's been obvious since your first cross post to R.C.M Look at the headers, MAROON!!!
They had money. They bought what they wanted. I'll bet you're a real hoot in the "Crooked Old Contractor's Retirement Home", with the way you pick & chose what you want to reply to. I did industrial electronics, and another business customer referred him to me. He had to have a refferal, since I did np advertising, and wasn't lised as a business in the phone book.
I only took the work because he had so much stuff that had been screwed up by hacker grade, fly by night handymen and so called 'experts' like you.
I've built TV stations, CATV headends, mobile production TV vans and communications equipment for NASA while you rip off little old ladies and brag to them what a nice guy you are. Keep ranting like the maroon you are, 'Buggsy'.
The location in the discussion thread is NYC. If he has electric heat there, which I don't believe is the case since he has nat gas, then electric heat is a problem of it's own that needs fixing. Who in their right mind would size an emergency generator to run electric heat for a house?
AC could be an issue, but it's not as vital in most cases as heat is. And instead of spending buckoo bucks on a big honking genset, it might be better to buy a window AC for $100 for an emergency, no? I would think most people can get by with a lot less during an extended outage, instead of trying to power life as usual. =================================================
Don't forget, this is a LARGE house, with a fair-sized shop, with bigger-than-avg equipment.
In another post, I did address the "life-as-usual" issue, and have made reference numerous times to the "gamble" of choosing a wattage for a generator. I freely admit to being really spooked by Sandy, and proly over-bought as a result, but it may pay off in the next power event, ESP. shop-wise. As I pointed out, shop-wise, I will be shedding loads like crazy, depending on what I'm running, even with 15 kW..
Also, ito of gas draw, I did some inneresting experiments that I'll post on separately. But here, just note that just because the motor is 22 hp, 15 kW, dudn't mean it's ALWAYS sucking up 22 hp worth of gas -- it will RARELY do that. Just like a 300 hp car is using only 15 hp cruising at 60 mph on level highway -- the SAME hp, btw, that a 100 hp car is using, on the same highway. The demand for the full 300 hp is very rare.... unless you are a drug dealer....
At lower power demands, or idle, it will indeed be using more no-load gas consumption than a smaller genset, but proly not a biggie, and certainly not a gas service issue.
Bottom line is, you pay one way or the other.
Another way to have gone was to have STAGED generators -- bitty ones for light stuff, with bigger ones coming on for heavier stuff. I was even considering a smaller dedicated generator just for the cycling air compressor, as that gives the system a bit of a shock. We'll see how stable this genset is with cycling loads like that.
As far as operating it inside, portability and all that, it IS portable, now that it's on a dolly..... And I'm keeping it inside for now mostly for experiments and the monthly 10 min run -- I can easily move it outside for protracted runs. This unit is not much heavier than, say, the 8,750 W Black Max at Sam's club. Plus, I will be monitoring CO closely, to assess the practical viability and safety of running it inside. More on that in another post, really some inneresting stuff. But moving it, running it outside is no big deal.
Bottom line, 15 kW isn't as much as you think -- see my other post on this. And it's all a gamble, anyway. Just too much crazy weather going on around here, too much nail-biting. So ahm broke now, and may never even use this thing, but at least my nails will grow back.
The small generator that easily handles my normal electical demand during a power outage won't start the motor on my washing machine, so I picked up an old 3750W / 3000W Coleman cheap at a flea market and rejetted the carb to run smoothly on 10% EtOH gas.
The Maytag's motor requires at least 25A to start. Once running it draws between 500W and 800W. 3750W should be enough, 31A at 120V, but the motor needs its high starting current longer than the generator can provide it unless I push the motor slide in with my toe to loosen the drive belt. The generator appears to current limit at around
25-26A on a steady load, before the breaker pops or the engine slows down.
My KAW doesn't help at all to determine the peak starting current. For that I need an Amprobe with a mechanical meter movement. jsw
Sounds like that got seriously cold. I sometimes wonder if I should preheat my bed with a hair dryer for a few minutes, before climbing in.
I had a similar moment when the draft inducer fan in my furnace wore out. Wore right through the side of the housing, a sight to see. Anyhow. I tried to heat for a couple days with gas range burners, and electric heaters. Not very successful, for sure.
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I went for a month without gas service in Ohio after the old line ruptured. Nothing but a 500 space heater blowing under the bed at night. I wouldn't leave it on while I was at work, and I was working doubles seven days a week.
Did you actually try the 3750 on the washing machine? Makes me wonder, if my
2500 will run my ancient Whirlpool washing machine. Be nice to know, someday.
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The Maytag's motor requires at least 25A to start. Once running it draws between 500W and 800W. 3750W should be enough, 31A at 120V, but the motor needs its high starting current longer than the generator can provide it unless I push the motor slide in with my toe to loosen the drive belt. The generator appears to current limit at around
25-26A on a steady load, before the breaker pops or the engine slows down.
My KAW doesn't help at all to determine the peak starting current. For that I need an Amprobe with a mechanical meter movement. jsw
I had to stop the wash cycle before it ended and tried to start up on spin. Instead I advanced the timer to the final spin cycle so it would empty the tub and then stop completely when finished. Then I rinsed the soap out manually with a hose and reran the final spin cycle. jsw
I can confirm that experience. Neighbor had a 4500W and the one load it would not run was the washing machine. It could handle two modern gas furnaces, 5 fridge/freezers, lights, etc all at the same time, but not the washing machine. Personally, I would not even attempt it. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to push a generator during an outage when you need it for furnace, freezers, lights, etc. Seems you should be able to get by for a week or so without running a wash. And if you lose the generator you're really screwed.
Also, a big problem with these generators is unless you pay a lot for say a Honda or Yamaha, you don't know what you got. The typical ones are made from a variety of Chinese engines and Chinese generators, with just sheet metal and paint distinguishing them. They go for mabye $700 for a 5KW. On the other hand, you could pay $4000 for a Honda with less output. It comes down to price vs reliability, how essential it is to you, etc. Best low end strategy is probably to buy a Briggs and Stratton or Troybilt. Even though I believe they are still made in China or use major Chinese components, you have a brand name company which hopefully means somebody is watching the quality at least a bit.....
And for washing machines there are other options. During Sandy, Tide was set up here in NJ at Lowes with a tractor trailer full of washing machines where you could do your wash. Apparently they go to disaster areas like this to provide the service.
My strategy is to have spares of the few things I really need. I have a small, noisy Kohler generator that is one-hand portable up a ladder, a 1600W one that's two-hand portable for short distances, and the 3750 Coleman that I can barely lift into the car. All were used, cheap, and ran enough to show they were repairable. I didn't realize how much stuff Americans dump into landfills until I lived in Germany, where they don't create 1/4 as much trash.
I tested the Coleman for max capacity on a nice sunny day with no storms predicted. It will run my window air conditioner as long as the A/C can cycle normally. The starting load is too much when I don't wait long enough for the pressure to drop after shutting it off. Likewise I have to loosen the head outlet pipe on my 1/2HP air compressor to let the generator start it. jsw
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