Motion Sensor Light for Front Entrance

[LSMFT]

Throw it out and buy a good one.

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

They DO use mechanical relays.

Here is a schematic of the appliance module:

that internal module ground is connected to the hot side of the power, and the point marked "A" supplies power to the load regardless of the relay.

[DerbyDad03]

I'd need a long shovel. Dad lives >300 miles from me.

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

Right. The setup in my bedroom is a lamp with 100W CFL and a TV (I got a small Visio LCD TV that is not "power amnesiac" (comes on with power)) connected to a receptacle module (SR227) which does not have "local control" and the TV provides enough load.

[snip[

I seldom find "customer service" to be helpful, but at least you got someone you could talk to. I just had a really bad experience with a wireless (CDMA) broadband carrier, where the person ignored 90% of what I said.

[Robert Green]

The Green Police are making those non-amnesiac devices harder to find. My RCA TV is one, and when you turn it back on with the IR after shutting it down via X-10 it covers the lower half of the screen with a whiny warning about the clock losing its settings. Hey, you're a TV, not a clock!!!! STFU. (-:

"Flashing" is also dependent on the type of lamp. I have some GE's that don't flash but that are X-10 signal suckers and some N:Vision (HD brand) bulbs that flash like demented fireflies. X-10 needs to make a CFL friendly control module.

I've found if you're even moderately knowledgeable about a product it takes two escalations to get someone who's not reading from an IF THEN ELSE chart and who can actually troubleshoot. X-10's tech support came in as "Unknown name/Unknown number" on caller ID, FWIW. Once I heard her speaking I knew I was not going to get a good answer. I hope I don't regret giving them my phone number.

-- Bobby G.

[trader4]

And I have two settups using X10 with CFL and both work perfectly. One uses the plug-in appliance module with a 100W CFL in a desktop light. The other is the X10 wall switch that powers 4 small candle type CFLs, maybe 25W each at the front door. Both go totally out when off.

I guess it could depend on the design of the CFLs.

[Art Todesco]

Two possibilities here: I have a whole load of the Universal Modules, which I used in a previous life, for Halloween animation. I modified the UM to remove the screw terminals and I then added a 1 foot pigtail with a female receptacle. Actually, it was cut off from an extension cord, so there were 3 outlets. The wire went into the place where the screws were, formerly. I've read that the contacts are rated for line voltage, but because of the exposed screw terminals, the unit was only rated for low voltage. Anyway, as this is just a plain make contact in series with the load, it works good on the CFLs that where blinking with the module off. I am now presently using this on in my living room. One sort-of problem, these modules click REAL LOUD.

The 2nd possibility is regular lamp/appliance module modification. I have seen modifications that make a lamp module into a click-free appliance module. One uses a solid state relay. The other uses some other parts. These modification eliminate the sense current completely. Google click free or quiet module modifications.

[bud--]

Interesting to see circuits for devices. Thanks.

I have never played with X10. From the thread, local control is an on/off push button on the unit. There is a jumper to disable it, but I don't see the pushbutton contacts.

Any idea what "momentary operation" is or what "local current sense" is for?

And any idea what fused "TNR" in the upper left corner is?

-- bud--

[DerbyDad03]

trader4,

Thanks for the all the info on x10. It certainly seems like the way to go.

re: "it requires a whopping 3 items: wireless motion sensor that you mount where you want it outside, wireless receiver that plugs in an outlet, and a switch that replaces the existing light switch"

That said, it must be me, but I can't find "the wireless receiver that plugs into an outlet" on ebay. The other 2 items were easy to find.

I found all sorts of "appliance modules" that have a receptacle included, but that's not what I'm looking for is it?

If I search ebay for "x10 wireless receiver" all the hits I get are for audio and video stuff

Where do I find the "x10 wireless receiver" that talks to the x10 switch?

Thanks again!

[George]

There only seems to be one manufacturer (different names on them but they all look identical) and I tried them in the past and they were useless because the receivers had extremely poor performance.

I gave up on them and bought a high gain unit that has much better performance. I think it was ~ $120. Not home at the moment to check for a part number but I think one of the reasons it works a lot better is that it comes with ~ 10 feet of coax to be able to locate the antenna away from the module.

[Robert Green]

I have a bunch of UM's, and they do indeed clack, but I am too much of a pussy to pass 110VAC through a contact spec'ed for 33VAC. You're proving that it can be done. I'm saying "Hey, X-10, why are you forcing people like Art to do your design engineering for you?"

The SSR mode looked interesting, but I am reluctant to do much more than snip a wire or cut a surface trace. X-10's final solution was to use a 7W nightlight to counteract the flashback of a bulb I am using to saving electricity. Add in the 4 watts for the X-10 module and another 4 watts for the controller and the economics start to sour. A fully equipped X-10 house draws considerable standby current. I remember measuring mine at close to

400 watts. In a lot of places, the flashing hardly matters and it's actually the most efficient low leveling night lighting you can get (if you're not epileptic). I''ve tried a lot of the mods, and while they do eliminate the local control, they don't stop the current trickle!!!!!

The twin bulb 40W fixture in the workshop finally failed so I replaced it with a new, high eff. unit. Now it flashes with the same intensity as nearby lightning does. Surprisingly, you can navigate quite easily if you move slowly. More than enough light to see a black cat sleeping on a dark rug. Seeing a white dog is no problem. Low SAF and neighbor approval factor, though. Went back to a manual switch (shudder) for the time being.

-- Bobby G.

[Mark Lloyd]

They call that module a "transceiver" . The models I have are RR501 and TM751.Both have built-in appliance modules.

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

I haven't used "momentary operation" but would expect its what it says. When turned on, the device is turned off immediately afterward.

"local current sense" is how "local control" works. It senses the operation of the controlled device's own switch. Turn if off and then on and the module turns on.

[hallerb]

I would install a solar light and have it on at night.

the constant offs and ons and lack of sensitivity, and change of sensitivity in freezing weather can drive everyone nuts including the neighbors.

or rig up a sensor down near the start of the walk tripping light on for a fixed ttime.

or just bite the bullet and add a pole light, mine has a dusk to dawn sensor on pole with timer indoors.

its enabled on from 6am till midnite. rarely have any activity between midnite and 6am. early morning provides a little light for neighbor kids on way to school. at my other house now sold I had the pole light and some accent lights for dark areas... front door was on side and no pole light spot did everything. I was actually pretty proud of that set up and it worked great with timer and light sensor that turned on accent lights too.

looking back i shouldnt of sold that home:(

I tried the motion sensors a bunch of them and was never satisfied.

currently my pole light has a CFL when LED lamps improve i will go with that

[trader4]

Yes. Sorry for the confusion when I called it a wireless receiver. It's been a while since I bought one. The one I used is the TM751. And as Mark points out, it has a receptacle at the bottom that you can plug something into that you want to control as well. When it receives the signal from the wireless motion sensor, it turns on or off the outlet and sends the X10 signal down the AC line.

[DerbyDad03]

re: "Sorry for the confusion when I called it a wireless receiver"

No problem, but I'm still just a tad confused by the different terms used.

I was looking at the manual for a 3 way-switch WS4777 found at:

ftp://ftp.x10.com/pub/manuals/ws4777-is.pdf

They use the following lines:

=95 Set the House Code dial to the same letter (A thru P) that you set on your X10 controller(s). =95 Set the Unit Code dial to an unused code (1 - 16) which can be controlled from any X10 controller.

Are the RR501 and TM751 "Transceivers" also known as "Controllers"?

One last question (I doubt it!)

I plan to play with X10 at my house before buying anything for my Dad who lives 300 miles away.

I currently have a spot light with a motion sensor on a 3 way switch. The motion sensor works fine for the driveway as you approach from the front, but I've always wanted to be able to turn it on as I walk up the dark side of the house from behind it. The side path is not within the coverage area of the current sensor, but the light would illuminate the steps up to the driveway at the end of the path.

So it sounds like a X10 remote sensor on the side of the house could be used to control that light. So here's the question:

Can I retain the current motion sensor that is wired into the fixture for the driveway approach or do I need to disable that one and install a X10 sensor for the front of the house also?

[trader4]

The use of the term "controller" above means the the switch will respond to commands on the AC line from any "controller" that issues a command. In your case that command comes from the wireless motion sensor you will be using. The transceiver receives the command wirelessly and puts it onto the AC line. So, it's passing it along and I guess you could consider the transceiver as a type of controller.

Basicly, the transceiver unit just passes along what it receives. But it also has an X10 outlet that responds to commands as any other one would. The only difference is that it is hard-wired as Unit #1. In your application you don't need the outlet so you could ignore it.

So, you just set the motion sensor, transceiver and wall switch to the same house code. Then you set the motion sensor to any unit # and the wall switch to the same unit #. If you select unit #1, the outlet on the transceiver will go on and off at the same time as the wall switch. If you select any other unit #, only the wall switch will be activated.

You can also set the light on time, dusk to dawn, etc on the motion sensor as well.

I don;t know of any way to make it work as a parallel type arrangement. The only way I can see it working would be to convert it to 2 of the X10 motion sensors, make the light so it's always on ie disable the motion sensor on it, replace the switch with an X10 switch and use the transceiver.

[DerbyDad03]

Thanks!

I must be learning something becasue that's exactly what I thought your answers would be.

I'll put my order together and get busy.

[Art Todesco]

As for the UM, yes the click is horrible ... worse than the generic appliance module. I'm not sure where I found it, but, someone reported that the relay contacts were actually rated at line voltage. The exposed screw terminal are what actually made them put a spec of

33VAC on the module. As you said, I'm proof that it works but I don't have any hard documentation showing the contact rating.

Also, when you said your house had an X10 standby load of 400 watts, I can't see how. I am assuming you mean from modules and such. Today I connected 8 generic lamp modules to a Kill-A-Watt unit. The 8th module made the display go from 1 watt to 2 watts.

[DerbyDad03]

I received my X10 order yesterday and started playing around with the devices. Pretty cool!

In a matter of minutes I was turning on lights in my living room by walking across the back yard. Drove SWMBO nuts!

I'll be installing the switches and other items for my entry and driveway lights this weekend.

I love new toys!