More Intermatic wall timer fun

I just picked up an Intermatic wall switch timer, model EJ500C. I'm installing(or trying to) into a 4-way circuit: three switches, and the light.
Their install instructions(http://www.intermatic.com/images/instruction_sheets/158SS11359 . pdf) simply say "For existing 3 switch installations replace one 3-way switch with the timer and replace the 4-way switch with a 3-way switch" Well, it doesn't say anything about what to do with the FOUR wires that currently go to the 4-way switch once it's replaced with the 3-way.
I'm very handy, but I'm no seasoned electrician.. never been a fan of working on the whole 3-way and 4-way circuits ;)
Anyone had any experience in doing this? I have existing construction and can't run any new wires without some major work.
Thanks!
Tim
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Tim wrote:

Then you have a problem, because according to that diagram, you will need to get an extra wire between the old 4-way location and the gonna stay 3-way location.
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So, in general circuit discussion: what if I bypass the 4-way switch altogether? Does that then turn the circuit into a 2-way?

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DiezMon wrote:

situation. In addition, the 3-way (2 switch) operation is pretty finicky if you don't run an additional wire. It will end up working like a badly wired 3-way setup--in other words, in some on/off combinations, it works as you would expect, in others, the light goes on and immediately switches off.
In the end, despite the claims on the packaging, these timers don't really work in multi-switch installations unless you run additional wiring. I ended up bypassing all but one switch, and running it as a plain old 2-way. Since they're on automatic timers, these circuits don't get switched much anyway, so having the switch in only one location (instead of 3 or 4) hasn't been an issue.
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DiezMon wrote:

Yes, you can do that. I have done that myself in the exact same situation. In addition, the 3-way (2 switch) operation is pretty finicky if you don't run an additional wire. It will end up working like a badly wired 3-way setup--in other words, in some on/off combinations, it works as you would expect, in others, the light goes on and immediately switches off.
In the end, despite the claims on the packaging, these timers don't really work in multi-switch installations unless you run additional wiring. I ended up bypassing all but one switch, and running it as a plain old 2-way. Since they're on automatic timers, these circuits don't get switched much anyway, so having the switch in only one location (instead of 3 or 4) hasn't been an issue.
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Oh, actually, to be clearer, if you bypass the 4-way switch, leaving two 3-way switches, of course that's not a 2-way switch installation. But I think you knew what I meant.
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My first post is much friendlier, but you will probably see this first, give, the way that threading works.
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:27:18 GMT, "DiezMon"

What is a 2-way circuit?. There are no 3-way or 4-way circuits** There are only 3-way and 4-way swtiches, and they don't go 3 ways or 4 ways. Each switch only goes 2 ways. 3 and 4 are names derived from the number of screws on each switch, and the number of wires that normally get screwed to them (one wire for each screw in most applications.)
If you bypass the 4-way switch and don't change the 3-way for the timer, you'll just lose the advantage of the third switch (the 4-way)
If you bypass the 4-way switch and do change the 3-way for the timer, you'll just lose the advantage of the third switch (the 4-way) And you'll lose the advantage of the remaining 3-way switch also. You'll just have one switch and a timer. And if you want the light on, the timer will override the switch. If you want the light off, the switch will override the timer.
If you want to retain the benifits fo the current twor or three switches and also add a timer, I can tell you how, but you have to say what your intention for the timer is. Are you trying to turn a light on and off? Are you trying to turn it on when it is dark, or from 5PM to midnight, but you also want to be able to manually turn it on during the day sometimes? OR Are you trying to turn something OFF that others might have left on. Do you want to turn the lights off in the office bathroom from 6PM to 8AM so that when the employees leave the lights on all night, your timer will stop that?
What are you trying to do?
** not counting things much more complicated than this.

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On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 23:48:56 GMT, "DiezMon"

But the timer isn't a three-way switch is it? By that I mean, it is designed to turn the ligh on and off when the rest of the swtches have the light ON. It isn't designed to do that when somewhere else in the circuit the light is off. (Imagine you had 2 three-ways and one 4-way and one timer controlling a receptacle, and the lamp plugged into that receptacle was OFF. Then nothing the timer could do could turn the light on.
You can tell that the timer is not a 3-wayt because they also want you to replace the 4-way with a 3-way. If the timer were a 3-way, you could keep the 4-way and it would continue to do the same function.
BTW, even if the timer were a 3-way, you would still have to leave the rest of the circuit in the ON position. Because if you flipped one of the other two swtiches, the timer would then turn the light Off when you wanted it On, and On when you wanted it Off. Maybe that would be ok in some cases, but it's not what you want, right?

They intend for you to figure it out. If you change a 4-way to a 3-way, you have no use for one of the 4 wires. It's the same wire that can't be connected to the timer because the timer only accepts 2 wires and not 3.

I don't know why you think or why Volts says you need MORE wires. You actually will now have an extra wire***. Now I'll go look at the webpage. Oh, it's a pdf file. They annoy me. :) Please read my other post. I don't need to look at the pdf file.
***Unless you want to discuss how to turn the timer into a 3- way or 4-way swtich? Which I can explain.

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wrote:

OK, I dl'd the pdf file and I take this back and apologize
And to Volts too. Disregard from here on down to my next comment. Well, I'll just snip my 3 incorrect paragraphs.

Well, you could connect that unused wire at the 4-way-now-3-way (that comes from the timer now) to a jumper that goes to the far end 3-way (or to the lamp itself), except it seems you might have to run a new wire, as you say. (from the now-3-way to the lamp.). Maybe if you look in the box there is an unused wire?
Or you could run the jumper straight from the timer.

Actually, they thought of all this. I'm impressed. It seems like a very good design.

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