Lost Electricity

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In VT, you call and they will lend you one for a month for free. They even provide a return box all labeled and postpaid. Requires credit card so they can charge you if you fail to return.

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Dave's not here, man. :-)
But if you actually are Bruce Richmond and you mean Dave Richmond, everybody around the Junction knows Dave from somewhere.
(Soft knocks at the door) CHONG: Who is it? CHEECH: It's me, Dave. Open up, man, I got the stuff. (More knocks) CHONG: Who is it? CHEECH: It's me, Dave, man. Open up, I got the stuff. CHONG: Who? CHEECH: It's, Dave, man. Open up, I think the cops saw me come in here. (More knocks) CHONG: Who is it? CHEECH: It's, Dave, man. Will you open up, I got the stuff with me. CHONG: Who? CHEECH: Dave, man. Open up. CHONG: Dave? CHEECH: Yeah, Dave. C'mon, man, open up, I think the cops saw me. CHONG: Dave's not here. CHEECH: No, man, I'm Dave, man. (Sharp knocks at the door) CHEECH: Hey, c'mon, man. CHONG: Who is it? CHEECH: It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me. CHONG: Who? CHEECH: Dave, man. Open up. CHONG: Dave? CHEECH: Yeah, Dave. CHONG: Dave's not here. CHEECH: What the hell? No, man, I am Dave, man. Will you... (More knocks) CHEECH: C'mon! Open up the door, will you? I got the stuff with me, I think the cops saw me. CHONG: Who is it? CHEECH: Oh, what the hell is it...c'mon. Open up the door! It's Dave! CHONG: Who? CHEECH: Dave! D-A-V-E! Will you open up the goddam door! CHONG: Dave? CHEECH: Yeah, Dave! CHONG: Dave? CHEECH: Right, man. Dave. Now will you open up the door? CHONG: Dave's not here.
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On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:40:37 -0600, Steve IA wrote: <...>

See what your next bill is. My REC actually reads only every other month; they estimate the other "readings". I started using compact fluorescent bulbs (and otherwise reduced usage) a couple years ago and they're still estimating the interim months about 25% high.
Also, readings aren't necessarily the exact meter reading. Where I previously lived, the meter reader handset showed estimated readings for customer accounts. If the estimated reading wasn't too far off, the meter reader accepted the estimate rather than keying in the actual reading.
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Steve IA wrote:

I know you said they did not estimate this bill, but what about the previous month(s)? Did the outage span over 2 billing cycles? Kevin
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Steve,
You provide a lot of good information. You state that your 12/07 usage was 682 kwh (27.3 kwh/day for 25 days). You tell us that the power was out for 20% of that billing cycle. You tell us that in past Decembers you have used from 533 (17.2/day for 31 days)to 773 (24.9/day) kwh. I don't see much theft here, could easily be normal variation.
Dave M.
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David L. Martel wrote:

Very good post to convert to a range of previous usages on a daily basis which shows only a 10% roughly higher than previous rate (27.3/24.7 ~ 1.1). I'd not ascribe it to anything but normal variation based on that, especially if there's on indication of stray current when loads are off as indicated.
Being a REC, it's probably a neighbor who does the meter-reading; they could probably tell you if they had made an estimate the previous month or not. We're small enough we still hand-read; a transcription error a month ago might have been smaller than normal too, which you just made up for this past month.
--
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"David L. Martel" wrote:

Dave, Thanks for the return. I guess I'm not following your calculations. I will give you actuals and maybe I can see where you're coming from Dec 07 - 682 kwh on a 31 day billing cycle = 22 kwh/day Previous 6 years Dec: assuming 31 day billing cycle for all 02- 611 .7kwh/day 03- 702 ".6 04 -663 !.4 05 -676 !.8 06 -581 .7 07 -682 "
avg = 653 range = 702-581 = 121
I agree that it is well within normal variation if I had used elec every of the 31 days, but I only used for 80% of the time. Steve
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Steve IA wrote:

Previous max was 22.7; this was 22*0.8.6 --> 22.7/17.6 = 1.3 instead of previous 1.1. I didn't check the numbers. Still, don't have the comparative degree-days to see how much that might be a factor.
I'd still say it's unlikely to be anything except an anomaly in usage combined w/ billing cycle. Could possibly have had some leakage during the outage if there were some damage somewhere on your feed...I'd only worry much if it is still abnormal for another month.
--
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Steve,

No, the billing cycle may have been 31 days but I thought you said you had a power outage for 6 days. that means that you used 682/25 days'.3 kwh/day. But if you used 22 kwh/day ( I don't follow this) then your use seems to be quite normal for this time of year

I'm not sure why you are using the numbers for Dec 07 in computing your average since you believe these numbers are wrong. Excluding the 07 figures I get an average or 647 kwh for December. Where I live the actual billing cycle can fluctuate by a day or two, so I'm uncertain if it is reasonable to average these numbers together and I would not calculate the kwh/day without knowing how many days there are in the billing cycle 27.3 kwh/day is probably a new high for you but it does not seem to be a huge increase. Could be a lot of Christmas lights, a few visitors, really cold weather, et c.
Dave M.
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David L. Martel wrote:

If we had used for 31 days instead of 25 it would have been 22 kwh/day. right. I agree that the real average for dec 07 is 27.3 kwh/day which is way more than we've ever used before for no apparent reason.

The numbers are what the meter reader says (or guessed) I have not other numbers and January usage is in line with the end of december reading.
Excluding the 07 figures

Read the other responses again. No lights. no entertaining, no extra dirty clothes. I may be thick as a brick on this, but it doesn't add up. Thanks \\ Steve
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Another key parameter you need to share but did not is the average temperature over the billing period. My utility company provides this, as well as the number of KWh and days.
Is it possible the avergage temperature was colder than the same month one year earlier? This could explain a higher usage even with 6 days of no usage.
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Dimitrios Paskoudniakis wrote:

It was colder, but very little of our usage goes to heating the house. Certainly not cold enough to mitigate the days of 0 use. We installed a new fireplace in November and our LP usage has dropped so much that I chased the tank wagon away the other day as we had used less than 150 gals between September and jan 10th.
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have
is
tried
the
breakers
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begun
but
Steve is it possible that as a result of the ice storm and the holidays that you spent more time at home than you normally would on an average work day. I'm thinking that your living patterns during that time period were such that your power consumption may have been higher. Perhaps you are the type of people where your lifestyle has you going out a lot, but because of the weather you were forced to stay at home. I don't know about where you live, but my electric rate is higher during the week days and during daylight hours than at night. Maybe you were home more during peak periods.
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John Grabowski wrote:

We are retired and away from family and this hasn't changed in 3 years. We did no entertaining, extra lighting or cooking beyond normal December stuff. Thanks.
Steve
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so you're trying to tell us they charge a different rate during different times of a day? How, when they come read the total, do they know which KWHours were daytime and which KWhours were nitetime???? Are you sure you're not talking about your phone bill?
s
I don't know about where you live,

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WOW! that's freaky. Our REC charges .13 and that's a rip around here. The Kansas city power and light is only about 9.5 or 10 and when we moved on the the REC, i thought i was gonna die. thanks for the explaination.
s

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I'm paying .18 and a new increase is coming.
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| I ask the REC and they said we 'just used more'. They also tried | to blame 'recovery usage'. I'm not buying it. They claim they didn't | estimate the bill and when I received the bill I immediately checked and the | meter reading seemed in line with normal. I'm talking KWH her not $$ which | can be affected by rate changes, surcharge and taxes etc.
Perhaps the meter reader is 'cooping' and the utility does not know it.
We had a similar problem. We hooked up a motion activated 'critter cam' facing the meter. No one showed up for months then the bill jumped. Surprise, surprise that was the month the meter was really read.
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It didn't "go" anywhere. The higher bill is probably a combination of actually using a little more electricity and "catching up" from the co-op's reading estimation.
Few rural co-ops read every meter every month. Many only read every 3 months or so. In the interval they estimate your bill based on past history. If they under-estimate for a couple of months then the "catch up" bill can be startling.

No.
No.
Probably how your utility works.

One of the most useful things you can do is to read your meter every day at the same time for some period and look for patterns. I have a simple energy audit spreadsheet that you can download here:
http://www.neon-john.com/Misc/Energy_Audit.htm
It has a page where you can record your daily readings and compute usage.
A call to your co-op should reveal whether they using meter estimating and what their actual read interval is. Many co-ops have a program where the customer can read his own meter once a month and mail in a postcard. You might inquire about that. That would eliminate any estimating.
One thing to be informed about and wary of. Many rural co-ops are converting to self-reading meters. That is, meters that report their readings to the co-op, usually by data-over-power line. I have witnessed and am witnessing some real cluster-fscks in the transition process. One of my client utilities hired a contractor to do the conversion which involved recording the final reading of the old meter and they, in turn, hired minimum wage workers. The error rate went through the ceiling. Some people got bills of multi-thousand kWh, which is what happens if the reader misses the most significant dial by one or more digits.
I am also witnessing some cheap and awful meters being installed. The infant mortality rate is very high and the accuracy is questionable.
Bottom line: you should know if your co-op has or is converting to self-readers. If they are then it is even more important to track your usage on a daily basis. If your usage remains basically the same but the meter suddenly indicated that you're using more (or less - that'll catch up with you too) then you need to alert the co-op immediately. The meter's electronics may have taken a surge hit and gone out of spec. Old mechanical meters were stone-cold reliable and held calibration for decades. The jury is still (far) out on the new electronic ones, especially the lower end ones.
John -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN I'm going crazy. Wanna come along?
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