Lawn care goes hi-tech

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This sends me to a %age change in expenditures which pretty much has nothing to do with discussions about whether or not it is cheaper when all of the costs/benefits to society are added up. Especially since this doesn't control for the two big variables:inflation and increases in population (assuming that some %age of the population tends toward the criminal the more people you have the more criminals you will have and the more expenses you will have).
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wrote:

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wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/24nupmm
http://www.uaff.info/Incarceration_rates_worldwide.gif
http://tinyurl.com/26olrxg
I think "The War on Drugs" has been the largest contributor to the increase in statistics of non-violent crimes. I wonder what the 3rd chart would look like if marijuana was legal?
I'd like to see the red line just below the blue line. Only incarcerate the hard-core drug dealers. IMHO it's obvious we're doing something wrong.
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JimT wrote:

Interesting graph - but it represents national averages, not Texas. California, for example, the cost is a bit over $47,000 per inmate per year compared to Texas' $18,000. (Others I've found: Massachusetts - $46,000; Michigan - $30,500; National Average - $23,000)
There are several reasons the cost here is lower: As I mentioned, prisoners grow their own food. We don't have an all-powerful prison guard union in Texas. And unless the bone is sticking out, prisoners don't get much medical care.
Further, the cost of corrections is like the cost of termite protection. It costs more today than it did ten years ago, true, but the cost is still much less than allowing the insects to run loose.
Bottom line: Even at California or Massachusetts rates, locking 'em up is still a bargain for the community. A bargain in preventing loss, a bargain in insurance rates, and a bargain in emotional trauma.
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wrote:

If the guy is on a hunger strike, let him go a week or ten days and let him dictate his immediate future. 2100 calories daily will keep him alive. When in medical danger - force feed him with medical approval and check his weight. BTDT
Like the old saying: "If you don't grow it, you don't eat it."
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I tried to find your stats but I ran across this:
http://www.nicic.org/features/statestats/?State=TX
Doesn't appear to back you up.
"2008 Corrections Percentage of Total State Government Expenditures Taxpayers paid 1% higher than than the national average in 2008."
????
Wow...TX has the highest % in jail. Yet the crime rate is still higher than the nat. avg.
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JimT wrote:

The site made me remember a news story about the folks running the prison system complaining about costs because inmates were refusing parole. It seems that the inmates wanted to do their time and be done with it so they wouldn't have to be supervised when released from prison.
TDD
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That's a pretty impressive site. Concise and to the point.
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JimT wrote:

I thought so too. Dang! What a great source of information to use to educate myself with facts that I can hit ignorant fools upside the head with. *snicker*
TDD
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JimT wrote:

Texas: "Prisons cost Texas taxpayers $49.40 per inmate per day, which is $18,031 per year. is is lower than the national average of $24,656." http://www.texaspolicy.com/pdf/2008-LegeEntry-CorrectionsBudget-ml.pdf
California: "Avg Yearly Cost: per inmate, $49,000" http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Divisions_Boards/Adult_Operations/docs/Fourth_Quarter_2008_Facts_and_Figures.pdf
And others. Keep looking.

Regrettably, that's true. That figure is but a strong indicator that we need MORE prisons and need to lock up MORE people. Still, there are several reasons, beyond our immediate control, for the statistics:
* Texas does not release people because the jails are overcrowded, as California must do under federal court order. * Texas does not release people because the state can't afford to keep them locked up as was the case in Michigan this past year. * While all states have an influx of illegal immigrants, the ones in Ohio are there to work while many in Texas come across the border merely to kill, maim, and mope. Then they go back to Mexico. * We don't ignore as much law-breaking as some other places. Many Katrina evacuees, for example, found their ordinary daily activities, ignored in New Orleans, were felonies in Texas. * Also, Texas contracts with other states to hold their inmates. Our state could charge, say, Minnesota, $60/day to hold one of their criminals. We make a profit of $10/day and Minnesota saves over $40/day (1996). It's a win-win scenario. See: http://www.prisonpolicy.org/prisonindex/prisonindustry.html
Plus, we've got at least 31,000 federal prisoners in our lock-ups.
Point is, not everybody locked up in Texas prisons are there because they broke Texas law. Idaho, for example, may have a smaller percentage of their population in their prisons than Texas, but that's partly because the Idaho criminals are in Texas jails!
Here's an interesting way to save money:
"Every inmate in a California prison costs taxpayers over $47,000 a year. Because of the state's astronomical prison costs, a new Reason Foundation-Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Foundation study finds California could save $120 million a year for each 5,000 inmates it sends to private prisons in other states. " http://reason.org/news/show/private-prisons-save-california-bil
We'll be glad to take 'em.
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http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Divisions_Boards/Adult_Operations/docs/Fourth_Quarter_2008_Facts_and_Figures.pdf
<g>.....pretty interesting material. I'm all for it. I don't like the ratio of violent vs. non-violent inmates, but I'm more of a libertarian than a Republican. To me, locking up a marijuana dealer, is putting an entrepreneur out of business.
There are other things about TX stats that bug me but it sounds like we have some progessive ideas about costs. As far as bring them here; fine as long as they don't stay.
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There was a study done in the NY prisons a few years ago, looking for the percentage of people incarcerated for drug violations where there was no violent crimes committed. They found one (no, not one percent).

"Welcome to Texas, now go home"? ;-)
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I was wondering if they have to go back to the state they were convicted to serve out thier probation? I don't know much about this stuff; thankfully!
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After Katrina, I would hope Texas would have thought that far ahead.

Indeed. I do find the Texas prison model interesting, though. Maracopa county, AZ is another model that should be studied nationwide, pink undies or no.
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Ordinarily - parole supervision is served in the court of jurisdiction. That can be changed.
For the record, if one serves time in prison he has already past the probation stage of the courts.
IOW prisoners don't get probation from prison, but get parole.
Parole was hampered when authories stopped parole.
I can hear it now!
"Boss, I gotta take it to the door!!"
It means he walks out without a supervision. Time served.
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snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

"People get convicted not for what they did, but for what can be proved, and often what is proved is not what they did," so says Alan Dershowitz. Dershowitz went on to say "Most criminal defendants cannot be convicted without violating some fundamental right. This rule is known to the judge, the prosecutor, and the defense.*"
It makes sense to put a $100/day Heroin addict in prison for possession of narcotics (a non-violent felony) thereby preventing an armed robbery a day (a violent felony). Or three burglaries. Or one car theft.
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<snip>
While this all is interesting, the original point began with the cost of locking up more people. So f$%king what if TX can lock them up per inmate cheaper if we are still paying 1% over the national average as a % of total state buget?
The bottom line is all that matters to me. I'm not going to prison anytime soon. Good for f$%king Texas; they can lock them up cheap. Lower my f$%king taxes TOO! Too many motherf$%kers are in jail in Texas....PERIOD!
:-)
Jim
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What if the reason Texas has above-average % of budget being spent on incarcerations because their budget has below-national-average spending on excesses, waste, and pork?
However, I might want to look into whether Texas could make a move towards drug treatment programs, methadone, or the like.
One more thing: It appears to me that USA is worst-in-the-world with drug laws. I think USA needs to move to one of two extremes:
1. Have drug laws like those that Germany had in the late 1970's according to my highschool German teacher. Get caught with half a joint, spend 2 years in "the joint".
2. Have recreational drug laws like those that USA had in 1900. Back then, marijuana, cocaine and opiates were legal.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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clipped

We tried that...at least when the smokers were black.

"Natural selection" might take care of the problem in the long-run. Last week, the St. Pete Times ran an article about oxycontin overdose deaths...there were more than 100 last year in Hillsborough County (Tampa) alone. I don't recall for sure, but I think some of the other area counties had more deaths than HC in the same period. The article also gave some numbers for visits to "pain clinics" that dish out prescriptions at alarming rates.
When medicaid for "everyone" kicks in, it probably will take off like free gold bars....death is the only sure "cure" for addiction.
I hope they again ban TV ads for pharmaceuticals..."This drug might cause dizzyness, nausea, vomiting, death, but it sure as hell will make you feel better".
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Don Klipstein wrote:

Because drug treatment programs are, in the main, feel-good endeavors.
There are two federal drug treatment prisons. The BEST results they've ever obtained - graduates being drug-free after one year - is a piddly six percent.
Conversely, a significant percentage of Viet Nam veterans returned from Asia addicted to Heroin. Virtually all kicked the habit on their own.
Druggies are druggies.

Turkey has some pretty good drug laws...
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