Insulation: Air vs. fibreglass, styrofoam, etc.

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On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:05:42 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"

Where? Why? I would think it would lower the insurance. Lasts longer, more durable, and more resistant to fire.
Jim
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Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Florida. High winds. Harder to put out a house fire, since you can't walk on it and cut holes to ventilate the building.
--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

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Wind makes sense- we rarely have roof-ripping winds in my neck of the woods-- But our firemen have ladders & don't walk around on our rather steep rooves. [roofs?- suit yourself, I looked it up because rooves looked weird-- both work]
Jim
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wrote:

There are a number of metal roofing systems that have been approved by Dade County for high winds, and if it's good enough for Dade, it's good enough for your application.
Impact resistance might be an insurance consideration for hail damage, but there are metal roofing systems that have that...errr...covered as well: http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/home/roofingx.html
I know of no fire rating criteria that requires a building envelope component to be easily compromised to improve firefighting access. If you could provide a citation, that would be grand.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

My dad had a house in Lake County and couldn't get insurance because of the metal roof. They all told him to replace it with a shingle roof, or they couldn't insure him. Of course, Dade county approves of all kinds of construction that other places won't accept. I know people who left there after Andrew. Houses less than two years old were badly damaged, yet passed al hurricane rated inspections. Afterwards, he damage revealed all kinds of substandard work. Curiously, all the inspectors involved had 'retired' and couldn't be located.
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snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net says...

Perhaps he should have called State Farm. They list 20 pages of metal roofs for which they offer discounts. To get the discount though you have to take a cosmetic damage waiver--I guess they don't want to pay for every little dent.
House I grew up in in Nassau County had a metal roof. Never any problem getting insurance.

Dade County changed the building code radically after Andrew you know, based on lessons learned, and it is one of the toughest in the country now.
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"J. Clarke" wrote:

I'm sure he did, since they insured his car at the time.

They never want to pay, but there are plenty of roof types they don't want to insure. By listing '20 types' it sounds like they are decorative styles over plywood or other construction instead of a plain 'Five V' roof on perlings and rafters.

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snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net says...

I didn't say "20 types", I said 20 _pages_, listed by brand name and manufacturer mostly.

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"J. Clarke" wrote:

How do you prove who make the 'Five V' on your home?
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snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net says...

You read the markings on the back of it. Geez.
By the way, I've never seen a piece of tin roofing that one couldn't knock a hole into with a fire axe, which shoots down another of your assertions.
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"J. Clarke" wrote:

I have seen a lot with no markings. There are non on my garage roof, or shop roof. There are none on the dog kennel either. I never saw any on the new metal that I was looking at, to replace the garage roof. Geez.

Go ahead and walk across metal hot enough to melt the bottoms your boots, while hoping it doesn't collapse from your weight, and tell me about it. I know you'll tell me that I'm wrong, but I've seen too many collapse early in a fire.
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I would be Leary in salt regions.
I got a metal roof on a large shed. Pretty much what under it controls flex.
I used to live across from Americas first fallout shelter home. It was built extra good along with basement shelter. It had a metal roof. Cost 50% more than regular home. I was recently contemplating if the roof was grounded. There was a chimney mounted tv antenna. The lead in down to the basement started a fire there. Seems like the roof might have bypassed the strike.
The fire damaged some drawings for a HBO cartoon. Had to be redone. One at a time.
Greg
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I see fires here on tv. I usually see fire coming out the roof, last place a fireman would go.
Greg
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wrote:

Why would you say that? They're tons more durable than asphalt shingle, which is about my least favorite roofing material, and yet is the most common.
I had no problems getting insurance on my last place which had metal on both the house and the garage.
nate
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N8N wrote:

You have a layer of plywood or other lumber under the shingles. Most metal roofs don't. You can't even walk on some of them without causing leaks, or like when my 300+ lb neighbor stepped on the roof of my storage building, he almost went through. I told him it wouldn't hold him, but he ignored me and caused several hundred dollars damage that he wouldn't pay to repair.

Were you in the middle of a forest?
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snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net says...

If they were put on by Snuffy Smith. Now the problem begins to become clear--your buddy couldn't get insurance on his not-to-code crappily installed metal roof and you conclude that it was because it was metal and not because it wasn't installed to code.
You seem to be conflating V-groove sheet metal panels with a steel structural roof. They are not the same. Either, properly installed, meets code and is insurable. However trying to use v-groove sheet metal panels as a structural roof does not. They are required to have structural decking under them.

Must make them difficult to install.

Oh, NOW we get to it. You don't know how to construct a building so it's the fault of the materials.

He could have sued you into poverty.

Why would that make a difference?
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It actually is employed in your house if you have fiberglass insulation. The fiberglass essentially traps air within the fiberglass so that it cannot move. Air that does not move will not transfer heat very effectively. That's why if you crush the insulation down and compress it, you greatly reduce the R value.
How that applies to the Dubai ski facility, I'm not clear on. I agree with your reasoning that if it's just a closed air space similar to an attic, it won't work, because the air will move via convection.

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says...

Yep.
The attic would have a convection cell going unless there was something in it that prevented convection.
Fiberglass, styrofoam, down, etc, all trap air--that's where their insulating value comes from.

If it's just recirculating the air in the attic it isn't going to do much, if it's moving outside air in and inside air out then it's providing cooling--generally the air temperature will be less than the surface temperature.

Convection is different from both conduction and radiation. Air heats by convection.

The "solid" insulation is to keep the air from moving.

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You insulated your roof. Ok. What I did in my garage was install perforated reflective material to the roof joists. This does create an extra few inches of air space. The dominant force in the summer is the suns heat. When there is a large differential temperate, radiance becomes dominant. I used to go in my garage and you could feel the heat from the roof. Now, nothing. And of course it's a lot cooler through the day. Eventually the temperature of the air becomes equal to the outside through the day, but forget the baking effect.
Greg
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No, it's not true as others have already responded. Those shows are riddled with errors, which, I suspect come from liberal arts majors writing/editing the scripts which the narrator just reads. Accuracy in science or engineering doesn't seem to be high on their list of important aspects of the show. Art
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