inground pool question


I have a in-ground concrete base pool with a vinyl liner. Is it possible for me to tile over the concrete base and get rid of the liner? Not sure what kind of supplies I would need for this if it is possible. The pool is old and the liner is sagging and it's very costly to replace.
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suwright wrote:

by swimming pool paint. paul
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I'd think that would have to do with your location. If you're in an area with hard freezes you're probably better off replacing the liner IMHO. I'd be interested in reading other comments.
I asked a similar question and I came to the conclusion tile is too problematic and expensive.
Jim
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Your pool might be like my 124 year old grandmother, who was on life support, and the hospital asked if they could do bypass surgery on her at a cost of nearly $100,000. We said no.
Call a pool pro in your area to come out for a "free" bid. They will tell you what can and, more importantly, what can not be done. There's no law against you stealing their ideas and DIY'ing. But, more importantly, they will give you a professional answer on how to fix your pool, and if it can even be done.
If the liner is sagging, doesn't that mean that the concrete under that is moving away? You might consider having a new pool put in. At least your excavation costs would be low. :-)
Steve
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I have the same situation. It makes no sense to me why someone would pay for all that concrete only to slap a p-o-s liner on it. In my pool, possibly because of it's irregular shape, new liners start giving me leaking problems after about three years, then by five years, they're toast. At 5 to 6 thousand per liner I finally gave up. I talked to a number of pool contractors about turning it into a real, totally concrete or plaster pool and was pretty much told to forget it. I did have one company try to sell me on an epoxy paint job, but he really didn't convince me that the $25K would be worth it. Ultimately I think I've pretty much decided to demo the concrete deck, fill in the deep end, and drop a prefab fiberglass pool into the shallow end. I'm located in a fairly cold climate in NY. Here is the current state of my project: http://picasaweb.google.com/109118990707724158516/Pool?feat=directlink
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On Tue 06 Jul 2010 01:26:29p, RBM told us...

Egad, what a mess! However, I totally understand. I lived most of my life in NE Ohio, and anywhere there are winters where temperatures reach freezing or below, there are problems unless the pool is heated.
My parents had a very old home near Cleveland that had a pool that was over 60 years old. It was completely tiled with mosaic tile, *but* the pool had always been heated and was in virtually perfect conditiion. There were occasional issues with re-grouting areas that had slight cracks in the grout, but otherwise no problems.
You couldn't give me a pool with a plastic liner no matter where it was. Here in AZ where I now live, it doesn't much matter what material is used for the pool, it generally stays in perfect conditioin with just normal upkeep.
In your climate, I should think that the fiberglass inset would be a perfect solution.
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In my opinion, if you're going to use a liner, just build a cheap steel walled pool. In the case of my pool, the previous owner, who installed it, had a friend who was in the liner installation business. I believe that the previous owner wanted concrete but was talked into the liner. The fiberglass does sound like a great solution, and for my family a pool half this size would be fine.

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On Tue 06 Jul 2010 03:29:07p, RBM told us...

Another nice thing about fiberglass, too, is that it's fairly easy to repair if it should be necessary.
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The fiberglass does sound like a great

One hell of a lot easier than steel.
Steve
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It all depends on how good the concrete is - both the surface condition and the structural condition. If the surface is loose, forms dust or crumbles, then nothing can stick to it so tiles and paint are impossible and a liner is required. If the pool concrete has cracks in it, which can occur for many reasons, then it is probably moving and the cracks are expanding and contracting with either soil movement, soil water content changes (drying or saturating) or foundation failure. Tiles would crack and the pool would leak, same for paint. So you need to remove the liner, let it dry out and check the structural and surface conditions before you do anything.
If the concrete surface is poor but not cracked, or at least not cracked too badly, then a liner would likely be OK because it doesn't need to stick and can move or stretch a bit if the pool walls move.
If the surfaces are good and there are no cracks then you can do as you please and can afford. Tiles are the most expensive by far and totally dependent on quality of installation - get the best guys in town and get a long warranty. There are a number of ways to really screw up underwater concrete work so experience counts. If the pool is not heated in the winter and the walls above the waterline can freeze then tiles may pop off due to freezing action even for a good job.
The least expensive method is to paint it but research the pool paints carefully, many only last 5 years at best and need to be repeated that often or even more often. Make sure you use the proper primers first - sometimes there is a pre-primer required for a particular manufacturer's product. All primers and paint from the same manufacturer and applied exactly as required by manufacturer. If the painter says he never does it that way or it is not necessary to do it that way then get another painter. The first guy won't do it when you are not looking. Make sure contract states that paint must be applied according to manufacturer's instructions and don't pay if it is not. Avoid white color as most of these turn yellowish in patches. Make sure top coat paint is rated for UV protection and use in pools with chlorine or salt in them. Realize that there is in fact no quarantee with a pool paint job. If there are problems later the manufacturer will claim that surface preparation or concrete conditions are to blame. The painter will claim product was at fault or concrete conditions are to blame. You will have no way to know which is true and no recourse at all. So paint is a risk. It is cheapest but there are no free rides.
If the concrete surface is uneven it can be smoothed out, not perfectly but pretty well, using Fast Set. Make sure there is no water used to mix up the Fast Set, just acrylic admixture. The admixture makes it stick better, helps for underwater conditions and helps resist frost problems. No quaranty but it improves chances hugely. Without admix it is all a waste of time and money.
Note that the pool must be perfectly dry for tiling or painting. You must keep rainwater out. I'd use a tent.
You could look at replacement of the entire pool as some posters have suggested, especially if the concrete has a crumbly surface or has a lot of cracks or just a few big cracks. Cheap repairs of poor concrete are an endless frustration and hugely expensive both first time and then get more costly repairing continuing problems. It never ends. Throw it out and start over.
Advantage of replacement is you can get a warranty from the pool company for all the bits. A warranty is only as good as the company backing it so avoid the cheap guys - problems always occur so the company must charge enough to be able to afford to keep it's customers' pools in good condition, i.e. you must pay for the warranty. The cheap guys usually don't do any or not very good warranty work, that's why they are cheap.
I've found huge differences in cost of concrete demolition - variances of 200% or 300% and often the best companies are the least expensive. So get at least three quotes and better yet, four. Tell the companies that you are getting several quotes so they know it is competitive. Pay extra for the experienced company, if the costs are close. The largest and best demo company in my city gave me a quote to demolish and haul away a 2,200 square foot house, including the concrete basement, that was a third of the highest quote and half of the second lowest. They did a great job.
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