I think that with the added information and the additional photos that you
provided, I am starting to get a better idea of what you have now, what you
want to do, and what your options may be.
From the photos above, I can see that you are correct that the door hinges
are just attached directly to the double 2x4's that make up the door frame.
Also, you are concerned that because it is so hot where you are, you were
thinking maybe you could make a new door in the basement rather than
repairing the door in the heat. However, I think that whether you build a
new door, buy a replacement door, or repair the existing door, you will need
to spend some time installing or fixing the door in the heat -- or you could
wait for cooler weather.
You also said that you are not too concerned about aesthetics as long as the
Option 1) If you decide to buy a new 32x80 door, I think you could install
it even if it is 1.75 inches thick. Here's why. If one looks at these
photos that you provided before:
the trim that is around the door on the outside (I forget what it is called)
could probably easily be carefully removed and then moved out toward the
outside another half inch and tacked back in place. That would let your new
door be flush on the inside and the moved trim will make it flush with the
trim on the outside. If you do this option, buy a wood or fiberglass door
so you can trim it to size to fit the opening if the opening is not quite
Option 2) Do what others said and try re-screwing and re-gluing things in
place to try to get and keep the sag out. It's an old door, and I'm not
sure how well that will work, but it might.
Option 3) Leave the door where it is, but put a shim or two under it and
along the side to get the sag out so it will be secured in place the way you
want it. When doing that add some glue -- not sure what type, maybe
exterior waterproof Locktite or something like that -- and re-glue the seams
etc. Then, with the door closed, shimmed, not sagging, and secured in place
(while the glue is drying), screw a piece of plywood onto the bottom half of
the door from the inside. I think 1/4-inch plywood would be strong enough.
The plywood would be cut to fit the bottom half of the door only, and maybe
do a cut-out in the plywood so that it goes around the doorknob. Screw the
plywood into the cross rails (or whatever they are called) and the two
vertical side rails. The purpose of the plywood is just to provide
cross-bracing so the door cannot shift out of square and sag again. The
same effect could be achieved by putting diagonal angle braces on the inside
of the door on the lower half, but I think a solid piece of plywood will
look better and work better. The plywood will keep the door from shifting
from a rectangle into a parallelogram. Then, of course, paint the plywood.
If it were me, I would do option 3, at least for now.
Think about it. The old 1.25" door is on a true 1.25" hinge. If I mount
the hinge on the back of a 1.75" door, will the other side of the door
even clear the jamb (actually the pair of 2x4's)?
This is looking more likely all the time. Check back tomorrow or the
next day. :-)
I tried something similar months ago. Shimmed the door up as far as it would
go, then mounted plate steel reinforcers on the back of door secured with
deck screws. It helped for a while, then sagged back. It would hold better
with big piece of ply, but likely would add too much weight, door and/or
hinges might not take it well.
'Tis a work in progress. I'll report back.
"Law Without Equity Is No Law At All. It Is A Form Of Jungle Rule."
If it doesn't clear the jamb, then I guess per his instructions that's
why he said to buy a wood one so that you can trim it.
I know you don't want to hear it. But for the peanut gallery, some
would say what you just pointed out is another advantage
of a pre-hung door. It's hinged, fits correctly, is perfecty square,
and will clear the jamb when you open it.
Obviously, I'm not standing inside your garage, but when I "think
about it", I don't think about using the existing hinges, I think
about using the correct hinges for a standard door thickness.
You have stops on the exterior. The face of the exterior of any
thickness door is going to still hit those stops when the door is
closed. If the door is 1.75" thick or 4" thick, the exterior face is
not going to move. It will be the face of the *interior* of a thicker
door that will simply extend further into the garage.
If you do not have room on the 2 x 4 framing (To avoid any more
confusion, I would not call that a jamb) for wider hinges to mount,
scab an extension onto the interior face of the framing to extend it
into the room. Use glue and screws to secure the extension.
Your other option is to remove the exterior stops and move them
outward so that the interior face of the door stays within the
I can't view the photos from the machine I'm currently on, so If I'm
missing something major here, I apologize. If I recall correctly, the
exterior stops are just some strips of wood nailed to the framing. Pry
them off, hang the new/used thicker door and reinstall (or replace
with narrower) stops in proper location.
I think what he's worrying about is not the stops. It's
the clearance when opening due to increased thickness.
Imagine a 1" door hung in a 6" wide door jamb, no stops.
Let's further assume it just has minimum clearance on
the side with no hinges so it opens without hitting.
Now, make that door 3" thick without changing any
other dimensions. While it will fit in the same opening,
it will not open because as you open it, as it pivots,
at some point the side without the hinges will hit the
jamb due to the increased thickness
But, I don't understand why a guy that
is proposing to build an entire door from scratch
thinks this is a big deal. All you'd have to do is
remove some material from the side or sides of
the door to get the necessary clearance. As
I pointed out and I think you agree with, this is
another example of an advantage of a pre-hung
OK, now I'm missing something. Maybe it's that whole "spatial
If the exterior face of the door is up against the stops, why does it
matter how thick the slab is? As soon as the door begins to open, the
slab begins to move away from the frame/jamb.
Take a look at the interior of any closed door near where you are are.
Imagine screwing a 4 x 4 to the interior face along the lockset edge.
Now you have really thick "door", right?
How is that extra thickness on the interior side going to prevent the
door from opening?
Use 3 envelopes to see the geometry. Put one on a
table, facing the long way. That's will represent the
left side of the jamb. Leave a gap to the right of that
envelope the width of an envelope and put down
the second envelope. So now you have the door
opening between those two envelopes.
Now use the short side of the third envelope to
represent the door. Position it so that it's in the
opening, tight, all the envelopes are just touching.
You will see that if the "door" only extends into the
opening a little bit, when you pivot it to represent
opening, it only takes a little clearance for the
far side of the door on the side opposite the
hinges to clear the opening. Now
move the door envelope so it's way inside the
other two envelopes that represent the door
opening. Try pivoting it again, the same way
to represent opening. Unless you increase the
size of the opening, the far side of the "door"
on the side away from the hinges will hit the door
The extent of the issue depends on the
geometry. For the small change in door thickness
he's talking about, it could very well be so small
that the door will still open. But if it hits, then all that's
needed is to remove maybe 1/8" of material
from the side.
I don't have any envelopes present, but I do have a door.
To state my "attach a 4 x 4" example in a simpler way, try this:
Stand on the side of a door that opens in. "Thicken" the door by
placing your hand on the interior face on the non-hinge side,
essentially forcing the interior face of the door (the back of your
hand) further into the room, beyond the jamb.
Now open the door, towards you, of course. now close the door.
Did any part of the door or your hand ever touch the inside of the
jamb? I think not. Don't see how it could.
If you replace a 1.25" door with a 1.75" door so that the extra 1/2"
is inside the room - and hinge it correctly - how is anything on the
non-hinge side going to hit the jamb?
Of course it would because the door is PIVOTING,
not coming straight out. The back side of that 4x4
would hit the door jamb and that would be it. As soon
as the door starts to pivot, the back of the side
without the hinges moves slightly to the right. It's
just a fraction of an inch, but the clearance between
door and jamb must allow for it. So, if you had just
enough clearance for a 1.5" door and you put in say
a 3" door, it would hit and not open.
It hits because the door does not open straight out.
If the door came straight out on both sides, then the
door would clear with just a tiny gap, say 1/64". But
it pivots on an angle bringing the backside on the
side away from the hinges closer to the door opening. And the thicker
the door the further to the side the far side of the door will be
before it clears the edge of the jamb.
Imagine you were moving a bed that is 6 inches
thick through a doorway, in the same position as
a door would be, ie vertical. The bed
is only 1/8 inch narrower all the way around than
the door opening.
Positioned perfectly straight, in the plane of the
opening, it goes through, right?
Now when the bed is fully inside the opening and
just about to come out the other side, what happens
if you try to rotate the bed slightly? The door hits the
sides of the openings. Now imagine if the bed were
only 1" thick. The same thing would happen but it
would hit the sides less when rotated. That is the
effect I think he's talking about and it does require
more clearance side to side the thicker the door.
There might be enough extra space in his case that
going from 1.25" to 1.75" it still works. But figuring out
if there is or not apparently has him in a knot. I prefer
to avoid the drama, which is why a pre-hung works
for me :)
You can also use credit cards to do the simulation
instead of envelopes.
You have absolutely lost me. Maybe we aren't looking at the door in
the same way.
Let's get our orientation correct:
"the back of the side without the hinges"
To me this means:
I am standing inside of a room.
The lockset (L) is on my left, the hinges (H) are on my right.
The door opens towards me, thus I can see the pin side of the hinges
If I grab the door handle and pull, the door will open in towards me,
exposing the edge of the door which we are calling the "thickness"
If this picture posts correctly, the L for lockset is located in the
area that you refer to as "the back of the side without the hinges".
Is that correct?
This is the point upon which our thoughts differ. I was going to
respond to your other post about my hand experiment being wrong, but I
wanted to wait until the GG delay passed and you had a chance to read
the above description. As long as we are looking at this from the same
vantage point, we can go on.
Take a look at this picture:
We are looking at "the back of the side without the hinges", correct?
( I can't access these pictures at work so I couldn't post that
OK, so we are looking at the interior face of the door. It appears to
be flush with the edge of framing, so let's call it so.
We can also assume that the exterior face of the door is up against
the exterior stops and can go no further "forward" i.e. away from
where we're standing.
You are standing 3 feet from the door - don't move.
I am now going to hang a 1/2" thicker door, making sure that the
exterior face is up against the exterior stops as before.
How far from the door are you now? 2 feet 11 1/2 inches, right?
The interior face has moved back into the room, extending beyond the
Since all of the extra material is inside the room, how is it going to
prevent the door from opening?
No. I believe from his photos the door opens into the
garage. The hinges are on the door inside the
garage and that is what we're looking at in the above
Well, yeah if you somehow hang the door with the extra
thickness so that instead of being inside the door jambs,
as it should be, the extra part sticks out into the garage.
But I would hope that is not how you'd hang a door.
That only works IF you put the extra thickness on the
hinge side, with the thickness sticking out into the
room. And then the hinges would wind up mounted
not where they normally are, ie at the edge of the
door, but instead the pivot point would be back
toward the middle of the door. It sure would look
bizarre. The door is supposed to sit inside the
door opening, not extend beyond it.
Instead of looking at his door, just look at a how
you deal with a door in general. Use some
credit cards to simulate the opening and the door.
Or how about this. Visualize a 2 x 4 laying flat.
Imagine taking a saw, cutting out a 2 foot section
in the middle. Now, I can slide that middle section
out if I just pull it straight out, like a plug. But
that isn't how a door works. It has to pivot.
What happens if I try to pivot it and open it
like a door would open in a doorway? It
won't open, because it needs CLEARANCE.
When you try to pivot it, it hits.
How far apart would you have to move the
other 2 x 4 pieces to make the opening
larger so it could pivot? Quite a ways,
because the 2 x 4 is 3.5" deep into the
Now simulate a narrow door, by making the
middle piece less deep, only 1/2" deep.
Now you could make the opening much smaller
and the middle piece would still have room
to pivot. In other words, the thicker the door
the wider the opening must be for it to clear.
Again, if he's adding only 1/2", then there
may be enough extra clearance already that
it won't matter.
If, because the door is 1.75" instead of 1.25", it hits the
jamb/frome/whatever, you would have to trim it or plane it a little to make
I have done this before and it does work. You could probably even use a
piece of luan. It's the big square piece that prevents the sagging.
Smaller pieces -- like pieces of metal -- put too much stress on the small
area of the small piece of metal and probably didn't work for that reason.
In fact, I'd bet that you could put a large square of sheet metal instead of
the plywood or luan and it would work. The wieight of any of these will be
minimal and I think it will solve your problem.
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