I found ut that the AC plug on the end of my AC cords were not heavy duty enough and were not gold-plated. For only 25 dollars a piece, I could get new AC plugs for my TV, Audio Receiver, Amp, and Equilizer.
Now it turns out I Have to buy a gold-plated electric receptacle, so that I get good electrical connections on both halves of the connection. $45 but I only need one.
I may have to replace the wire from the plugs to the boxes, but that should only be another 20 dollars for each. 45 if I pay someone to do it. But if you want good sound and good picture, you need good electricity.
Wow, some shady deals. I've purchased about 60 various things on ebay, most that could have been bad, and only got partially screwed once. One other time I had problems and they refunded my money without asking me to return the item, and the other time they sent me another new one without returning the bad one. Ya gotta watch their feedback score, less than 99.5% positive and you never know what you will get. Oh yes, one more time, a 230vac electric heater for the garage for $99. It had an overheated connection that broke off. I told the guy about it, and that I could fix it if he refunds me $40. He did so and I fixed the heater.
Don't forget - ALL the wire needs to be "oxygen free" or the harmonics will damage your ears. Getting the oxygen out has to be a difficult process, judging by the premium they charge for the wire.
The overall size of a stranded wire of a given guage varies WIDELY depending on the composition of the conductor. Many fine strands is smaller for the same circular mills cross-section than a few heavier strands - and ALL stranded wire will be at least a SMALL amount larger than solid conductor of the same guage.
________________ Hence the markings on my stripper - "14AWG Solid 16AWG Strd" Next ratchet: "12AWG Solid < > 14WG Strd" (this is the one I have to use to strip 16AWG stranded and not see any copper come off with the insulator)
Do not forget to get enough oxygen free wire to go to the breaker, a super breaker, and enough wire to reach from your house to the power generating station.. YOu do not want the electrons in the copper contaminated with the oxygen :-))
Stormie's got a good point if I strip the insulation from both samples. I've got a very accurate electronic scale that will show the difference in copper content.
I've taken some photos that I think make it pretty clear this isn't 14GA wire. I've cut it at 90 degrees and compared it to 12, 14, 16 and 18GA speaker wire I have. You can see how much less copper and more jacket than there is with *real* 14GA wire. I also feathered out the end of a stripped piece of both the real and the fake 14GA and it's incredibly obvious that it's substantially smaller than real 14GA (although the jacket sizes are identical!).
The vendor is quite unapologetic, saying "I'll give you $5 off if you're unhappy with the wire." I am unhappy about being defrauded. I'm going to see what Amazon does, since this guy's ripping people off using their name and claiming the manufacturer "forces" him to list it falsely. What really peeves me is someone could blow out an amp trying to use this wire where
*real* 14GA is required. I wonder how many packages of this crap wire this cheat sold? He sounds like he's gotten away with it for a long, long time and seems totally unconcerned that Amazon would do anything about it.
These fraudsters have figured it out, too. This wire is the same OD as 14GA but that's mostly jacket. The wire size is either 16 or 18GA just based on eyeballing it and comparing it to remnants of speaker wire I still had left "on spool."
Now the trick is to get Amazon to get them to stop selling selling mislabeled crap as 14GA. I know that Ebay couldn't care less - it was their vendors selling "uplabeled" CAT 5 wiring as CAT 6 that made me stop buying from them. Maybe it's Amazon's turn now.
I've seen that scam, too. The problem with Amazon selling crap like this is that you don't get to inspect the goods until *after* you've purchased them. I would have taken one look at the wire in a brick and mortar shop and KNOWN they were trying to cheat me.
I've got one of those, and I'll include that test in the photos I am making up to send to Amazon. This is the first time some "marketplace vendor" has tried a "bait and switch" of some sort. Eventually, it's going to hurt Amazon's reputation, probably long after the fraudulent vendor is gone. I think the best examples I have so far are a cross-wise cut of real and "ersatz" 14GA where you can see how small the copper core is in the fake wire and a feather-out of the two wires stripped of about an inch of insulation. I think the weight suggestion from Stormie will work out well, too, since it provides an absolute metric as to the amount of copper per inch of wire.
That's why I like the weight idea. I've been looking for, but can't find an example of a standard when it comes to evaluating stranded wire gauges, perhaps for the variability reasons you mentioned. Is it the total area of all the strands combined?
Measuring resistance would probably not be as convincing to an Amazon Customer support executive as measuring the weight of one inch worth of the copper in the wire in question and comparing it to "known accurate" sources (both samples stripped of insulation). A cross section photo (that shows the cable is more jacket than copper wire) and a feathered out photo of the real v. the fake also show how much smaller the "fake" 14GA wire is.
Undersized speaker wire can damage an amplifier. I also don't like getting cheated, and that's what this was. Open and outright fraud with 14GA marked clearly on cable that's nowhere near it. The differences in the wire's usefulness are detailed here:
IIRC, Amazon didn't list the country of manufacture. My feeling is one way to keep jobs in the US is to have Customs seize all the wire in this seller's inventory as counterfeit. Then HE will have to look for a better product. Marking a product to make it look like another product of higher quality is counterfeiting. If the vendors of this Chinese junk took a hit in the wallet, maybe they'd think twice about selling it. Same it true if Amazon takes a hit for selling counterfeit and fraudlent junk that could damage someone's stereo system. Maybe if this vendor had to pay for anyone who blew out their stereo, they'd choose better suppliers.
I've had pretty good luck with Amazon, up until now and I am sure that they will make things right for *me* but I am concerned that they won't demand the seller stop selling the counterfeit items. That bothers me because the seller's response seems to indicate the knew about this issue and continued to list the item as 14GA because their supplier "demanded" it.
I've gotten seconds in the book department, FWIW. A book with miscut and folded over pages in the middle. My point is that if no one complains, nothing will get any better. That's why I want to make this an open and shut case that even a non-electrically inclined person can see is a cheat from the evidence I'm going to provide. Just having to take my time to create evidentiary photos puts me in the hole in terms of money and time expended vs. value, but I think it's important to stop idiots like this from selling 18GA wire as 14GA.
I don't deal with Ebay anymore because of the rampant fraud - batteries labeled at three times their actual capacity, items labeled as working that are DOA, etc. However, I got some awesome deals from Ebay like a powerchair for my dad that was 1/10 the cost of a new one and a van with a self-deploying wheelchair ramp. Ebay was also great for buying up multiples of things I depend on (used Nikon 950's and Panasonic voice recorders that have a control interface that surpasses anything else I've seen on the market). No one can beat Ebay for cheap flashlights of all kinds (flashlight junkie!), PCMCIA cards for older laptops, etc. It's when they decided to become a marketplace for ultra-cheap crap that they became unusable for me. Ebay showed not a whit of concern when I repeatedly pointed out their vendors were selling counterfeits. Their position was "if you got *your* money back, then what's the problem?"
Yes. Total circular mils cross swection area of the conductor.
Below is from:
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By definition, No. 36 AWG is 0.0050 inches in diameter, and No. 0000 is 0.4600 inches in diameter. The ratio of these diameters is 92, and there are 40 gauge sizes from No. 36 to No. 0000, or 39 steps. Using this common ratio, wire gauge sizes vary geometrically according to the following formula: The diameter of a No. n AWG wire is
or equivalently
The gauge can be calculated from the diameter using
[3] and the cross-section area is
, The ASTM B 258-02 standard defines the ratio between successive sizes to be the 39th root of 92, or approximately 1.1229322.[4] ASTM B
258-02 also dictates that wire diameters should be tabulated with no more than 4 significant figures, with a resolution of no more than
0.0001 inches (0.1 mils) for wires larger than No. 44 AWG, and 0.00001 inches (0.01 mils) for wires No. 45 AWG and smaller.
Sizes with multiple zeros are successively larger than No. 0 and can be denoted using "number of zeros/0", for example 4/0 for 0000. For an m/0 AWG wire, use n = -(m-1) = 1-m in the above formulas. For instance, for No. 0000 or 4/0, use n = -3.
[edit] Rules of thumbThe sixth power of this ratio is very close to
2,[5] which leads to the following rules of thumb:
When the diameter of a wire is doubled, the AWG will decrease by 6. (e.g., No. 2 AWG is about twice the diameter of No. 8 AWG.) When the cross-sectional area of a wire is doubled, the AWG will decrease by 3. (e.g., Two No. 14 AWG wires have about the same cross-sectional area as a single No. 11 AWG wire.) Additionally, a decrease of ten gauge numbers, for example from No. 10 to 1/0, multiplies the area and weight by approximately 10 and reduces the resistance by a factor of approximately 10.
[edit] Table of AWG wire sizesThe table below shows various data including both the resistance of the various wire gauges and the allowable current (ampacity) based on plastic insulation. The diameter information in the table applies to solid wires. Stranded wires are calculated by calculating the equivalent cross sectional copper area. Fusing Current (melting wire) is estimated based on 25°C ambient temperature. The table below assumes DC, or AC frequencies equal to or less than 60 Hz, and does not take skin effect into account. Turns of wire is an upper limit for wire with no insulation.
AWG Diameter Turns of wire Area Copper resistance[6] NEC copper wire ampacity with
60/75/90 °C insulation (A)[7] Approximate standard metric equivalents Fusing Current (copper)[8][9] (inch) (mm) (per in) (per cm) (kcmil) (mm2) (O/km) (mO/m) (O/kFT) (mO/ft) Preece (~10s) Onderdonk (1s) Onderdonk (32ms)
0000 (4/0) 0.4600 11.684 2.17 0.856 212 107 0.1608 0.04901 195 / 230 /
260 31 kA 173 kA
000 (3/0) 0.4096 10.404 2.44 0.961 168 85.0 0.2028 0.06180 165 / 200 /
225 24.5 kA 137 kA
00 (2/0) 0.3648 9.266 2.74 1.08 133 67.4 0.2557 0.07793 145 / 175 /
195 19.5 kA 109 kA
0 (1/0) 0.3249 8.252 3.08 1.21 106 53.5 0.3224 0.09827 125 / 150 / 170
1.9 kA 15.5 kA 87 kA
1 0.2893 7.348 3.46 1.36 83.7 42.4 0.4066 0.1239 110 / 130 / 150 1.6 kA 12 kA 68 kA
2 0.2576 6.544 3.88 1.53 66.4 33.6 0.5127 0.1563 95 / 115 / 130 1.3 kA 9.7 kA 54 kA
3 0.2294 5.827 4.36 1.72 52.6 26.7 0.6465 0.1970 85 / 100 / 110
196/0.4 1.1 kA 7.7 kA 43 kA
4 0.2043 5.189 4.89 1.93 41.7 21.2 0.8152 0.2485 70 / 85 / 95 946 A
6.1 kA 34 kA
5 0.1819 4.621 5.50 2.16 33.1 16.8 1.028 0.3133 126/0.4 795 A 4.8 kA
27 kA
6 0.1620 4.115 6.17 2.43 26.3 13.3 1.296 0.3951 55 / 65 / 75 668 A
3.8 kA 21 kA
7 0.1443 3.665 6.93 2.73 20.8 10.5 1.634 0.4982 80/0.4 561 A 3 kA 17 kA
8 0.1285 3.264 7.78 3.06 16.5 8.37 2.061 0.6282 40 / 50 / 55 472 A
2.4 kA 13.5 kA
9 0.1144 2.906 8.74 3.44 13.1 6.63 2.599 0.7921 84/0.3 396 A 1.9 kA
10.7 kA
10 0.1019 2.588 9.81 3.86 10.4 5.26 3.277 0.9989 30 / 35 / 40 333 A
1.5 kA 8.5 kA
11 0.0907 2.305 11.0 4.34 8.23 4.17 4.132 1.260 56/0.3 280 A 1.2 kA
6.7 kA
12 0.0808 2.053 12.4 4.87 6.53 3.31 5.211 1.588 25 / 25 / 30 235A 955 A 5.3 kA
13 0.0720 1.828 13.9 5.47 5.18 2.62 6.571 2.003 50/0.25 198 A 758 A
4.2 kA
14 0.0641 1.628 15.6 6.14 4.11 2.08 8.286 2.525 20 / 20 / 25 166 A
601 A 3.3 kA
15 0.0571 1.450 17.5 6.90 3.26 1.65 10.45 3.184 30/0.25 140 A 477 A
2.7 kA
16 0.0508 1.291 19.7 7.75 2.58 1.31 13.17 4.016 ? / ? / 18 117 A 377 A
2.1 kA
17 0.0453 1.150 22.1 8.70 2.05 1.04 16.61 5.064 32/0.2 99 A 300 A 1.7 kA
18 0.0403 1.024 24.8 9.77 1.62 0.823 20.95 6.385 ? / ? / 14 24/0.2 83 A 237A 1.3 kA
19 0.0359 0.912 27.9 11.0 1.29 0.653 26.42 8.051 70 A 189 A 1 kA
20 0.0320 0.812 31.3 12.3 1.02 0.518 33.31 10.15 16/0.2 58.5 A 149 A
834 A
21 0.0285 0.723 35.1 13.8 0.810 0.410 42.00 12.80 13/0.2 49 A 119 A
662 A
22 0.0253 0.644 39.5 15.5 0.642 0.326 52.96 16.14 7/0.25 41 A 94 A
525 A
23 0.0226 0.573 44.3 17.4 0.509 0.258 66.79 20.36 35 A 74 A 416 A
24 0.0201 0.511 49.7 19.6 0.404 0.205 84.22 25.67 1/0.5, 7/0.2,
30/0.1 29 A 59 A 330 A
25 0.0179 0.455 55.9 22.0 0.320 0.162 106.2 32.37 24 A 47 A 262 A
26 0.0159 0.405 62.7 24.7 0.254 0.129 133.9 40.81 1/0.4, 7/0.15 20 A
37 A 208 A
27 0.0142 0.361 70.4 27.7 0.202 0.102 168.9 51.47
28 0.0126 0.321 79.1 31.1 0.160 0.0810 212.9 64.90 7/0.12
29 0.0113 0.286 88.8 35.0 0.127 0.0642 268.5 81.84
30 0.0100 0.255 99.7 39.3 0.101 0.0509 338.6 103.2 1/0.25, 7/0.1
31 0.00893 0.227 112 44.1 0.0797 0.0404 426.9 130.1
32 0.00795 0.202 126 49.5 0.0632 0.0320 538.3 164.1 1/0.2, 7/0.08
33 0.00708 0.180 141 55.6 0.0501 0.0254 678.8 206.9
34 0.00630 0.160 159 62.4 0.0398 0.0201 856.0 260.9
35 0.00561 0.143 178 70.1 0.0315 0.0160 1079 329.0
36 0.00500 0.127 200 78.7 0.0250 0.0127 1361 414.8
37 0.00445 0.113 225 88.4 0.0198 0.0100 1716 523.1
38 0.00397 0.101 252 99.3 0.0157 0.00797 2164 659.6
39 0.00353 0.0897 283 111 0.0125 0.00632 2729 831.8
40
Worse, still is that some real con artists know they can "buy" good feedback or at least use tricks to get it removed. I find you have to wade through a few pages of feedback to find those that have an unusual number of "feedback withdrawn" or canceled feedback listings. They are usually operating close to the edge, morally or legally.
I've had a similar experiences. I bought about 300 items all totaled before I gave up. Actually, PayPal wanted direct access to my account and I didn't like that - so it, too, was a factor in my leaving Ebay. I might return to sell off some of my excess junk before we move, but then again maybe not. Towards the end the quality of the merchandise in general was falling off and the participants were getting creepier and creepier.
Got a great deal on an outdoor PTZ dome camera for under $300 shipped from China faster than most vendors ship from California. Got great used CCTV stuff from Ebay, too, from vendors that buy huge auction lots. High end 16 ch $600 MUX's for $50 or less that worked perfectly. Other stuff, not so good but that's life.
I even bought a van through an Ebay listing although we consummated the deal off Ebay when no one reached his reserve. By that time I didn't think Ebay's buyer protection was worth much and I also lived nearby and could get to *see* the van. I researched about 400 wheelchair vans (even bought a CarFax subscription) and I can assure you that you should never buy a car sight unseen, especially without a road test.
Some of the scammiest, scummiest Ebay vendors I've ever run into were selling handicapped vans through Ebay motors. Aside from blatant lies about condition and past history, they usually managed to completely miss any damage when showing photographs. I traveled to Richmond (from DC) to inspect one van at a dealer and it was like that Star Trek pilot episode with the girl with the half-melted face. They only showed the unmelted side in the picture. The "minor cosmetic damage" they listed looked more like the gash that sank the Titanic.
It's just like anything else - buyer beware. While I'll chance the quality of a $24 coil of wire, I won't buy anything not guaranteed against DOA or expensive enough to hurt if it's a fraud.
Switching subjects, as a fan of the People's Court I was surprised to see this season not one, but two cases where someone bought a boat for way below "blue book" and then complained when weeks or months later, when they got it into the water, that it had problems after being out of the water for five years. Who would buy a boat without a water test? Or a car without a road test?
Another case was even stranger. A guy made a deal to buy a boat, and then got nervous when his mechanic discovered bad pressure in one of the cylinders. Buyer 1 then demanded that the seller allow him to pull the head and inspect the gasket. The seller immediately went to potential buyer number 2, willing to take the boat as is. Buyer 1 then sued the seller for reneging on a sale. What a world.
Unless the resistance of the wire is so high the output circuit is WAY outside spec AND the amp is pushed to it's limit, it is extremely unlikely the amplifier would be damaged. In home and institurional systems running 4 and 8 ohm speakers, it would be a REAL longshot with less than 50 feet of wire.
In some real heavy duty auto installations with 2 ohm systems pumping out mega-watts of power? Perhaps.
What DOES happen with too-small wires in high powered home systems is you loose crispness (or stiffness) in the base due to a combination of reduced power at low frequencies and reduced damping. The bass gets "muddy".
You need to have GOOD ears to hear the difference - perhaps 1 in 50 under 50 would qualify today.
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