HDTV antennas & complaints

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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:
SNIP HAPPENS

Interesting. First I have heard of the coupon thing. Sure hope it happens. There are 8 NTSC TVs in this house, as well as 3 NTSC VCRs. All are on a Comcast "Basic" cale, not HD cable.
I am *not* looking forward to what this "improvement" is going to cost me.
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wrote:

If you have cable, the improvement will cost you zippo. The cable box already supplies NTSC, S Video, Component, whatever you're using. That isn't going to change. The only folks impacted are those that receive NTSC over the air.
The coupon thing is a done deal. You can google or check the FCC.
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:59:33 -0000, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

'Scuse me, but how in the hull do *you* know what Comcast, TW, Charter, etc are going to do in the coming years? Some doubt they know they-own-selves.
Several years ago I could get premium (HBO, etc) channels on my NTSC tuners. Not no' mo': gotta have a (Charter) Digital-Garbage Box (and pay rent on it).
Last I looked, there were incentives for cable vendors to further convert to "digital". Not directly connected to the 2009 ATSC changeover.
...
Puddin'
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!" -Friedrich Schiller
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Look, first, it's not years away, ATSC is already up and running. HDTV programming is available right now through OTA, cable, and Sat. It coexists with std def right now. You can watch much of prime time in HD or std right now via cable. All those cable companies now deliver a signal that works with your NTSC TV. And the signal from most cable companies is already digital to the set top box, regardless of whether the output is NTSC or HD. In Feb 2009, the only thing that happens is NTSC OTA gets turned off.
If you don't believe me, call your cable company and ask or do a bit of research on the web.

I assure you that you can get it right now. Just call up and pay for it instead of stealing it.

That's right, the incentives are to cram more channels down that pipe. It's been going on, it works, so why should we expect it's gonna disappear, just because broadcasters shutdown the NTSC transmitters?

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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:16:46 -0000, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

No more black and white Roy Rogers and Dale Evans or Lassie? OTA? (g).
-- Oren
"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:16:46 -0000, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:
...

Sounds like a sales pitch to me. Kinda like doin' the Funky Chicken to dance around the stated Q ("how in the hull do *you* know ...") which you cannot answer.

Sho'ly, sho'ly. The cable co. is famous for taking great pains to precisely define the technologies that they are cramming down their customer's throats. :-)
And, no, I'll not be "researching" any sales pitches in the web.

Premium cable channels with only an NTSC tuner (no set-top box)?

"Steal Yo Mama! And Granma too!!" :-)
I pay for what I get and I get what I pay for. And I'm not buying the super-hyped garbage that you are selling.

He thinks he's "The Oracle On The Mound" and can foresee all eventualities. Doesn't even need to address specific issues (per the above).
I think he's a troll or a spammer or both.
P
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!" -Friedrich Schiller
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Not a sales pitch. I don't care what you choose to do or watch. Just pointing out that despite your efforts to spread FUD, there isn't some big unknown gotcha out there for cable customers.

Yeah, better to stay ignorant, and cast FUD around instead of making a simple phone call or looking on the web for info pertaining to your own cable company.

Again, not selling anything here.

More FUD about "eventualites". Like the cable companies can't figure out how the turnoff of NTSC broadcasting is going to impact them and how they will accomodate it? And what specific issue would that be that I haven't adressed?

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Puddin' Man wrote:

Comcast already announced that the FCC is requiring them to discontinue all analog channels (not true, the FCC is only requiring broadcasters to do that) and will require everyone to get a digital box. They have already done this in a few markets (with one a really big one).

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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I did not know that.
Thanks for the good news.

I'll look forward to seeing if there is a secondary market for the coupons.
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tiny 'house' cable systems like some apartments use, if you only have basic cable, no set-top box is involved. 1 cable, wall jack to 'cable ready' TV. (the apartments I lived in until recently were like that, and the basic cable my sister had at her house were like that.) Or are they going to start converting the signal at the head end before they send it down the wire?
aem sends....
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Well, let's see the cable company can either take the broadcast feed that's provided in std def as well as hi def and continue to supply a signal just like they do now that comes out of the cable box (or wire if you have no cable box), or they could commit suicide and let most of their customers go dark in Feb 2009. Which do you think their gonna do?

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chances are they will sell their system to the local cable company,who will connect to their system,and then you'll need their box,and pay their rates. That's what happened at my apt.complex a few years ago,sold to Brighthouse.(Time-Warner Cable)
Now you can also get broadband internet service,and Internet phone,I believe.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:59:33 -0000, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

WHAT cable box?
With basic cable, there is no cable box. The analog NTSC signal is fed right into the TV's tuner.
Doug
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wrote:

many basic cable systems still use a cable box,for signal security. They play games with channel allocations and shifting channel frequencies slightly.Some cable systems use a digital system right up to your wall,and you need a box to convert to analog NTSC.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
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And more cable systems are being upgraded over time to be digital right to the wall because it lets them cram more channels into the same space.
In the case of systems that provide some basic service without a box, here's what should happen with the end of NTSC broadcasting. The cable company almost certainly will take a std def source for a given channel, turn it into an NTSC compatible signal at the head end and put it out over the cable. That is straightforward, not expensive or hard to do, and causes minimal disruption to their cusotmer base.
And I don't see much choice. In such a system, what would the other alternatives be? Provide the signal in ATSC and expect customers to buy a tuner/converter box? That would be possible for those without a cable box, but it won't work for those that have a cable box. That's because there is nowhere to put the tuner/converter, ie you can't put it before the cable box, you can't put it between the cable box and the TV.
Now, in deference to Pa Pa Peng, who I apologize for jumping on a bit, I can't say for sure what cable companies will do. But I seriously doubt that 18 months from now, there is going to be some big trouble ahead for cable customers that want to continue to use their existing sets and cable. I base this on the following:
1- Considerable thought has been given by the FCC and Congress to minimizing the transition impact. They are giving two $40 coupons to over the air homes to help pay for converters. And it makes sense, because Congress and the Pres can do a lot of stupid things and no one cares. But if your TV stops working, all hell will break loose. All this discussion has been focused on OTA, which today is a small percentage of the total, maybe 15%. It would be pretty stupid for everyone to ignore some impending big problem in cable land, while worrying about OTA.
2- I've seen lots of discussion in various forums over the last few years about the turn off of NTSC, and no one has said anything about there being anything special that needs to be done that is gonna impact consumers. Everyone instead says it only affects folks receiving OTA
3- Technically, it's a simple and easy thing for the cable company to continue to provide an NTSC signal from the head end. Or to continue to provide it as a digital signal out of the cable box.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net writes:
| You don't need an HDTV. All you need is an ATSC digital tuner which | will deliver a signal compatible with your existing TV. The govt has | approved a plan to give consumers two $40 coupons that can be used | toward the purchase of two converter boxes. These tuners are already | available for under $100, and will likely be $50-75 by the time you | need them.
Do you know of any ATSC tuners (being under $100 would be a bonus) that support NTSC recording devices (VCR, DVR, etc.) in the following sense?
-They include a timer with a reasonable number of programs. -They include a stretch/fill/what-have-you mode to render pillar-boxed 4:3 material as full screen rather than letter-boxed. -The timer allows selection of the stretch/fill/what-have-you mode on a per-program basis.
                Dan Lanciani                 ddl@danlan.*com
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HeyBub wrote:

Technology has to move on. NTSC was lame duck even on it' own time. PAL was better system. Now digital rules everything. Look at how much energy old CRT TV set uses vs today's new bigger TV sets.
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snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

It is a little late to complain now. DTV was put into place during the mid 90's (the clinton years).
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Please! Please!! Please!!! Please!!!! Please!!!!!
The bushels of rationalizations that they offer be damned.
The primary objectives of the "Digital tv changeover" are -only- as follows:
a.) To assuage the interests of the "Entertainment Industry" (which donates copiously to -both- parties). "Bought And Paid-For!" b.) To raise cash for the Fedral Gummint (sale of bandwidth).
'Tis an exercise in what they can get away with in terms of shoving insane stuff down the public throat.
What will they do with the cash from sale of bandwidth? Consider the case of the poison Chinee food. Congress appropriated additional funding for the FDA so they could increase inspections, turn back pizen. What does the FDA do in their infinite wisdom? They increase salaries of existing employees and fail to hire new inspectors.
(Please to) KNOW When And How Your Fedral Gummint Is Abusing The Public! :-)
AQ
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:18:40 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

"The monkey and the baboon was playing 7-up. The monkey won the money but he scared to pick it up. The monkey stumbled, mama. The baboon fell. The monkey grab the money and he run like hell!" - from "Dirty Motherfuyer", Roosevelt Sykes, around 1935
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On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:18:40 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

The only argument in the government's favor is that HDTV transmissions are digital and require only a narrow bandwidth. This frees up a lot of very valuable bandwidth for other non-TV applications. Digital signals of course allow a lot of extra services, interactive services, etc. Offhand I can't think of any compelling ones yet that wil make me want to buy a HDTV set .
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