Grounding wire from panel to gas pipe???

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all
using
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be
heater.
Some
would
correctly.
rod?
I think that the water pipe grounding conductor should have been connected at the same point as the ground rod conductor at the main breaker in order to be code compliant.
Are the neutral conductor and the water pipe grounding conductor terminated separately so as to be isolated electrically from each other in the 200 amp subpanel?
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Yes. That is what I was trying to show in the picture.
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John Grabowski wrote:

I agree. The NEC requires the water service pipe (if 10 ft or more length underground) to be connected to the ground/neutral at the service disconnect, along with the ground rod. Also connecting it to the ground bar in the subpanel is OK.
bud--
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Do you need to explicitly bond the hot and cold pipes together using a copper wire jumper, or is there electrical continuity through the war heater? (Note my house is all coper pipes)
Also can I bond the gas pipe to the subpanel indirectly by just jumpering the gas water heater intake pipe to the cold water pipe entering the hot water heater?
Or is it required to directly bond the gas intake pipe at the meter to the panel ground using a single wire?
Or is all of this unnecessary since the water heater itself provides a conducting path bonding the gas pipe system to the water pipe system (and then back through the water pipe to the panel ground)
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writes:

all
using
the
be
heater.
Some
would
correctly.
rod?
Usually there is continuity through the water heater, however it is not an approved connection. You must use a #6 copper or #4 aluminum wire with approved water pipe ground clamps.

That is how I do it. I usually run one continuous piece of bare wire through each clamp on the hot water pipe, cold water pipe, and the gas pipe on the water heater. When the inspector comes he goes straight for the water heater and sees the bonding. If you have a hot water heating system and/or a well, those pipes need to be bonded with the others as well. Try and keep the clamps back far enough so that they will not interfere and do not have to be removed to change out the water heater.

In New Jersey the above bonding is required. Check with your local electrical inspector to learn what is required in your area.
There should also be a jumper wire from one side of your water meter to the other.
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John Grabowski wrote:

The advice to check with the local inspector (AHJ "Authority Having Jurisdiction" in electrical-speak) is proably the best advice.
For those that want to read about it, EC&M (Electrical Contracting and Maintenance Magazine) has this article -
http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_code_basics_20/index.html
See also: http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_code_quandaries_17/index.html
Randy
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John Grabowski wrote:

ive found most inspectorsdo not enforce this code here and some are requiring only one ground rod we still use two but ground rods are nearly worthless,certain conditions dont matter how many you drive down you still dont get the 25 or less ohms to ground
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I asked that very same question to the people I shoot with at the range - all of them either are instructors for gas service or perform field repair services for the gas company. Every single one, all 3 of them, said "DON'T DO IT!!!!" shortly followed up by "Mind if we come by this week to INSPECT your service??"
The gas company protects its own piping, if you must use ground wires to plumbing - use your cold water tap. Better yet save your pennies like I am and get grounded service. If I keep saving my extra money I might be able to afford it within the next 20 years - but's that's only if everything else in my life goes perfectly.
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Eigenvector posted for all of us... I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

Hey, good luck!!!!
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Tekkie

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I don't bottom post, at least not most of the time, and I try to be consistent with what I say. :-)
Tekkie wrote:

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blueman posted for all of us... I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

Hey Jefie is that you? Another question that been asked and answered quite a few times. Google still broke at your house aye? Take your meds...
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There are two issues here. Providing a good ground for your electrical service *and* grounding metal pipes in the house to prevent them from becoming energized.
Grounding your electrical service...
In the old days when all pipes were metal, a cold water pipe ground would do. But then there were problems with rubber grommets on water meters in basements isolating the inside water piping from the outside water piping, plastic piping run outside underground, and the ground wires becoming disconnected or damaged say by a lawnmower or whatever.
So a better grounding solution was found. That is a cold water pipe ground *and* a separate ground wire run from the electrical service panel to two ground rods placed 6 ft. apart. (double back-up) Also a ground wire which electrically connects the water pipe before the water meter to the water pipe after the water meter.
Grounding metal pipes/objects in the house to prevent them from becoming energized...
The idea of a 3rd prong on an electrical plug (ground wire) for an electrical appliance is that the metal case of the appliance is grounded. Then should there be a loose wire which touches the metal case and a person walks up and touches the metal case, the person will not be electrocuted. Or it would trip the breaker also protecting someone from being electrocuted.
Same thing with metal pipes or objects in a house. It is possible that a hot water pipe (which might be isolated because of rubber grommets) could become energized. So it is a good idea to run a ground wire from the cold water pipe to the hot water pipe (in homes with metal piping).
Hot and cold water pipes are very accessible to people. Sinks, washing machine, etc. Although gas pipes are not readily accessible to people, I suppose it wouldn't hurt anything to ground this as well. If grounding the gas pipe, I think running a ground wire from the gas pipe (house side of meter) to the ground rods or to a cold water pipe ground would be best. I don't think it would be a good idea to run a separate ground wire from the electric panel to a gas pipe.
Also while grounding things in the house, it is very important to ground metal objects around sinks and especially the bathroom. Like metal medicine cabinets which have a built in light fixture. The heat from light bulbs can cause insulation on wiring to melt away, then the metal cabinet can become energized. In a bathroom you are in bare feet and might be turning on the water while opening the medicine cabinet with the other hand - zap!
What can go wrong...
I have seen ground wires from main electrical service panels become disconnected. There could be a situation where the ground wire(s) from the main service panel become disconnected but someone ran a ground wire from there to something else like a gas pipe. Then an appliance could malfunction and this in turn could cause the gas pipe to become energized (if it was not inadvertently grounded via an appliance). So for this reason it is *not* a good idea to ground things such as this to a connection in the electrical panel, but to ground them directly to a ground such as cold water pipe and/or the ground rods.
Also you can get different "ground potentials". The ground at point A may be slightly different electrically from the ground at point B. For this reason, it is a good idea to ground everything at one point. That is run all ground wires or bond various grounds to say the ground rods or a main grounding point.
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No.
No, each utility does its own thing. Let the phone, and cable companies run their own grounds, to the unified ground of the electrical system.
Grounding is much less a concern to the gas company with their underground architecture than it is to the electric and phone companies with their aerial ones.

Yes, same gauge wire for all your grounding runs.

The galvanic corrosion problem mentioned refers mixing the types of materials on the pipes and wires, don't use a copper grounding clamp on an iron pipe, and vice versa.

A gas appliance, such as a furnace or range, that has an electrical hookup, will ground the gas line(s) that are connected to it, so you don't need to worry about it.
You need to "jump" over anything that is removable, such as the water meter, and the water heater, so that the plumbing is always grounded even if something is removed.
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Only qualified allow qualified personnel work on electrical systems, and follow all construction codes.
IMHO:
1. Required per 2005 NEC 250.104(B) 2. Required. 3. Per 250.104(b) use 250.122 as source of size. 4. Nothing special, but ensure you follow the NEC and local codes. Give your local code enforcement inspector a call. 5. 250.104(B) tells you the options you have to bonding the metal piping to. One includes bonding to the grouding electrode. If your water pipe meets the requirements of 250.52(A)(1), then it is a grounding electrode. So a water inlet piping can be used per code.
Now all this is using the NEC, and guessing about your local setup. Only a qualified person working on site can help you. So this is not a how-to, but a starting point for planning your operation. Research with your local inspector, or AHJ.
later,
tom @ www.FreelancingProjects.com
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most of the discussion is on gas piping outside the house. It would be a g ood idea to electrically bond the internal gas piping - that is the piping that is downstream of the gas meter - to the electrical ground electrode. The reason being that if the gas piping is energized it can conduct electri city same as water pipe. Typically the gas appliance ground will suffice, but if there is an overvoltage from a transformer surge or lightning, the h igh impedance of the appliance ground wire doesn't provide a low impedence path to ground. For most CSST, the gas piping MUST be bonded to the electr ical ground. So to answer your question:
- Is it required by code? YES but the appliance ground is usually used as the bonding means, so that satisfies the code. - Is it recommended? YES especially if you have CSST or flexible appliance connectors. - Wire size? Most use a 6 gage bare grounding wire - stranded if its availa ble. - Daisy Chain? You should be able to daisy chain from water pipe if its el ectrically continuous.
On Monday, July 31, 2006 at 12:45:10 PM UTC-4, blueman wrote:

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On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 12:57:42 -0700 (PDT), safecsst

Interior piping is required to be bonded where likely to become energized and this normally happens via the EGC in the equipment served. Water pipe shall be bonded using table 250-66, the same as any other ground electrode. (ie: 4ga for a typical 200a service)
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