Generator "cross over" switch installation costs

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TomR wrote:

P.S. I really would be interested in knowing roughly what such a generator "cross over" wiring installation might cost, and maybe how much power or what type of generator would later be required to power up both a smaller "regular" gas station and a larger multi-pump and convenience store gas station.
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TomR wrote:

Oops, it looks like I may have found the answer to my own question by doing a Google search:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q ºckup+generator+for+gas+station .
Obviously, I am not the first person to think of this idea.
And, it looks like the cost for just the electrical hook-up could be big bucks:
http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2013/mar/27/some-gas-stations-required-be-wired-bac-generators-under-state-budget/ .
Like maybe up to $10,000 for the wiring hook-up.
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It could be where you are at and then the government money..
I don't see it taking anything like a day for an electrician to install a transfer switch. At $ 100 an hour that would be less than $ 1000. The switching gear should not run over $ 1000 for some of the best.
If the station is planning on running everything I can see where it may cost $ 40,000. If it is just for emergency operation, the cost should be way less. Just depending on the cost of the generator. A 25 kw unit will power lots of stuff and is less than $ 10,000.
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On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 12:02:01 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote:

ng

Yeah, all these other guys are talking about RESIDENTIAL backup generators.
Commercial is a whole different game. That alone raises the price by a fact or of 5.
As you should be able to imagine, there are a lot of extra safety concerns when it comes to gas stations. I'm sure there are strict laws on how statio ns are wired, safety equipment that needs to be in place and operational wh enever the station is operating.
It's not as simple as powering a couple of pumps to suck gas out of the tan ks. You've pretty much got to have the entire station powered and operation al if you want to sell gas.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I agree with that. If the station is going to be operational, even during an emergency, I would expect that all aspects of the business would be up and running -- including heat, light, refrigeration, plumbing, etc.
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And suppose you are evacuating from a hurricane. You pull into the gas station. The owner says "I have this old style pump, running off a generator. You can have gas at five bucks a galon, cash, till I run out." What do you reply? . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
I agree with that. If the station is going to be operational, even during an emergency, I would expect that all aspects of the business would be up and running -- including heat, light, refrigeration, plumbing, etc.
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On 7/16/2013 5:17 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Fillerup!
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I'd say about the same thing. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
On 7/16/2013 5:17 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Fillerup!
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I guess that I am thinking real emergency. Things may be differant now, but when I worked at a hospital about 40 years ago we had two generators. One was automatic and one had to be put on line manually. We only powered the critical systems, the heart unit , intensive care areas some lights and that was it. There were emergency 120 volt outlets on each floor where something could be plugged in if neededd.
In a real emergency the gas may be the most critical thing. Keeping the beer cool or the lottery machines going may not be that inportant.
You reach a point as to ballance the money for emergencies against the payback. It is going to be foolish to spend $ 50,000 or more if there is no payback or if it will take 20 years to payback. Then if you price the fuel to fully power the whole station, you may never get payback.
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With anti price gouging laws, there is no payback, ever. So, there are no emergency generators. And all the people stuck in cars out of gas have to be hauled off to the concentration camps by the government. Oh, I mean, Super Dome. Same thing. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
I guess that I am thinking real emergency. Things may be differant now, but when I worked at a hospital about 40 years ago we had two generators. One was automatic and one had to be put on line manually. We only powered the critical systems, the heart unit , intensive care areas some lights and that was it. There were emergency 120 volt outlets on each floor where something could be plugged in if neededd.
In a real emergency the gas may be the most critical thing. Keeping the
beer cool or the lottery machines going may not be that inportant.
You reach a point as to ballance the money for emergencies against the payback. It is going to be foolish to spend $ 50,000 or more if there is no payback or if it will take 20 years to payback. Then if you price the fuel to fully power the whole station, you may never get payback.
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TomR wrote:

A gas station is a facility that handles flammable fuels, most everything around them has to be done in an explosion proof manner. There will also be a physical separation issue that for some stations in tight areas may not even be possible. Additionally, commercial standby generators require additional permitting that residential ones don't.
My expectation is that installation of a backup generator for a typical gas station will total $25,000-$35,000 by the time everything is accounted for, including the fact that commercial grade backup generators cost a lot more than the cheap residential ones.
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"cross over" switch installation costs:

So if that gas station is netting $0.05/gal of gas sold, how many gallons must be sold just to pay for that?
Would you spend that kind of $$ for that kind of profit margin?
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CRNG wrote:

A lot, but you can also increase the price a bit in an emergency so perhaps make $0.10-$0.15/gal. Since there are essentially no gas only stations, one could expect that in an emergency you would also sell a lot of milk, water, soda, ice, snacks and the like further increasing the benefit of being open when your competitors are in the dark.

With the combined convenience store, probably. Gas is something of a loss leader for stations these days.
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On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 10:29:12 PM UTC-4, Pete C. wrote:

I wouldn't be so sure that you could charge 10 or 15 cents more a gallon and not have the authorities coming after you for profiteering during an emergency. That's what it's come to in this country with all the do-good laws passed by liberals. Here in NJ, some years back, a local gas station was busted for selling gas as a promo at some very low rollback price as part of a promotion they were doing with a radio station giveaway deal. So, instead of selling gas for say $3.50, they were selling it for $2. Some state agency guys came and stopped them. Seems there is a law that says you can't do that. Even more amazing is that we are actually paying some state "regulators", to sit around watching and ready to pounce on such serious matters.
And even if you could charge 10 cents more a gallon, with these emergencies coming up once every 20 years and a station on having a limited amount of gas in their tanks, it would still take a very, very long time to cover the cost.

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wrote:

Right. give me a call as soon as you get the approval. On paper you are right, in reality, not going to happen.
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After last years back to back storms in the fall, in NY,NJ there is now a requirement for stations in defined areas to have emergency backup power. Most of Long Island was without power for about two weeks, stations in parts of NJ, NYC, Westchester county similar situation.
Bad part too was the main fuel transfer/storage dock in the port was also knocked out. Delivers had to come down from Albany area over 100 miles north.
Folks were driving for hours and waiting for hours, following tankers to get gas.
On 07/15/2013 06:02 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

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On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 2:51:53 PM UTC-4, HHSupply wrote:

In NY, not in NJ. NJ legislature is considering such a law, but nothing has passed. And in NY, apparently the taxpayers are once again footing the bill.
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On 7/17/2013 2:51 PM, HHSupply wrote:

Some day maybe we'll wake up and remove the trees along power lines.
Until then we'll suffer the long lines at gas stations.
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