Gas LP Water Heater

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Noticed this morning there is a little water under the water heater. Also heard water running outside. Seems hot water running out the overflow pipe on the outside of the house.
Turned off the water heater and the main faucet outside. the water stopped running outside. With the heater off turned on main water, water now runs out of overflow outside. Why?
I assume I need a new water heater. Called around to plumbing places around here. They want $695 for a 40 gal LP WH and $150 to install.
HD and Lowes want $288 + tax for a 40 gal water heater. Lowes said it was a Whirlpool didn't ask HD probably the same. My gas co. says if I buy one from some place else, they will install for $150. My gas company wants $595 for a 40 gal water heater plus $150 installation.
The WH I have now is a 30 gal Hedges installed by gas co. 12 years ago.
My question is does anyone know about Whirlpool WH. Hard water here in Fla. 1 person house not a lot of hot water used.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Pat.
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<DIV>Noticed this morning there is a little water under the water heater.<BR>Also heard water running outside. Seems hot water running out the<BR>overflow pipe on the outside of the house. <BR><BR>Turned off the water heater and the main faucet outside. the water<BR>stopped running outside. With the heater off turned on main water, water<BR>now runs out of overflow outside. Why?<BR><BR>I assume I need a new water heater. Called around to plumbing places<BR>around here. They&nbsp; want $695 for a 40 gal LP WH and $150 to install.<BR><BR>HD and Lowes want $288 + tax for a 40 gal water heater. Lowes said it<BR>was a Whirlpool didn't ask HD probably the same. My gas co. says if I<BR>buy one from some place else, they will install for $150. My gas company<BR>wants $595 for a 40 gal water heater plus $150 installation.<BR><BR>The WH I have now is a 30 gal Hedges installed by gas co. 12 years ago. <BR><BR>My question is does anyone know about Whirlpool WH. Hard water here in<BR>Fla. 1 person house not a lot of hot water used.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Any help would be greatly appreciated.<BR><BR>Pat.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stop right there. Change out the temperature and pressure valve first.&nbsp; Then move up to the new water heater if required. Since you have it off now would be a good time to flush it out. </FONT><BR><BR></DIV> <P> <HR>
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--WebTV-Mail-5317-3238 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
Hard to flush it out and drain the WH , it is in an inside utility room. I have never done that . And don't know how to flush it.
When I turned the main water on outside with the water heater off the overflow still drips water. It doesn't run out but constantly drips.
If the WH wasn't on the way out would iI have a small amount of water under the water heater .
Pat
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On 1/5/2005 8:08 PM US(ET), Pat took fingers to keys, and typed the following:

http://www.chilipepperapp.com/flush.htm
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Bill

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<DIV>Hard to flush it out and drain the WH , it is in an inside utility room.<BR>I have never done that . And don't know how to flush it.<BR><BR>When I turned the main water on outside with the water heater off the<BR>overflow still drips water. It doesn't run out but constantly drips.<BR><BR>If the WH wasn't on the way out would iI have a small amount of water<BR>under the water heater .<BR><BR>Pat</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>This is Turtle.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>You could have anything else wrong but the water could just coming from the Pressure / Temperature safety high leaking and leaking before it gets outside. Now SQLit just told you about saving a new hot water tank being installed but if you want a new one. Buy you one real quick for they may stop selling them anyday now. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Change the Pressure / Temperature Safety valve on the tank [ Home Cheap-0 $6.99 ] and you will probley not need a new hot water heater. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>TURTLE</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BODYBGCOLOR="WHITE"TEXT="GREEN"></BODY></HTML>
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--WebTV-Mail-10911-5102 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
Turtle:
I think hot water heaters will be around a long time. I am not in a hurry to spend $900 for a new water heater and installation.
Maybe a GI bath for a day or two until i can find an honest plumber.
If I need a new one, is the one that HD sells the Whirlpool for $288 is that a decent WH. I don't want crap either. The price I got from plumbers to replace of $695 + $150 for installation + tax, I thought was outrageous. I know prices have risen, but quality in products have gone down. Isn't that quite high or am I wrong.
Pat
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On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 01:44:48 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (Pat) wrote:

If all the plumbers seem to be around the same price, how do you think thats high? You think they all called each other and did their own price fixing? Labor is high everywhere anymore. It costs a small fortune to keep a business afloat. If you want it done without your intervention, that is a luxury and you pay someone to do it. If you want a hack job done by Home Cheapo that hires the cheapest hack subs out there, then call them and get what you think you arent paying for. Would you have your local food mart prepare a formal sit down Christmas dinner for you and 30 guests or would you hire a caterer? I personally installed a "Lowes Best" water heater in my own home in 99 (Im a professional). It was Sunday and I couldnt get the warehouse of the company I was working for to open up, Thus the Lowes purchase. The water heater sucked. It would not heat water worth a crap. You are forced to call the 800 number and deal with a woman that spoke broken English. She was useless. Over the next few weeks they sent me a new burner and gas valve. Same problem. They offered no more help and would not take it back. Before the year was up, I yanked it, set it out for garbage and installed a professional model, same 50 gallons. Its worked fine till this day. I'll never buy another water heater from the Home Cheap style stores. Bubba
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--WebTV-Mail-30150-8728 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
I got a plumber to come out here this morning. he said I needed a new water heater it was leaking and rusting out at the top. His price for a Rheem 40 gal installed was $949. And he said he didn't even have a license to install LP gas HW heaters. This is a large corp.
Called my gas supplier back today, which has always installed my water heaters. They now gave me a price of $349 for an AO Smith water heater and $150 for installation. they are coming Monday to install new one. Here in Fla you need a special license to install LP anything. The plumber I used to have ,no longer does residential told me , Make sure they have a license to install LP gas WH. Complicated test all plumbers that install these WH have to take.
Even if I had gotten a cheapo LP gas WH from HD that plumbing company was going to charge $469 to install.
So thanks for all of your help.
Pat.
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Bubba wrote:

think
for.
are
Hey Bubba, I got some questions for ya. 1. What's the difference between the "cheapo" and the "professional" WH? Is it materials, workmanship, personal opinion, or just not coming from a home store? 2. I understand that commercial gas WH's are using sched 40 PVC for the exhaust stacks because the exhaust is cool. How can this be?
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1) Yes, Yes and yes. I went the "cheapo" route with one from Lowes. Best they had and it turned out to be a POS. No support worth a darn and they didnt want it back or a refund. That wont happen again. 2) Residential too. They are called "Power Vernted" water heaters. Basemement air is drawn into the pvc through the inducer motor diluting the warm gases. Bubba
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the
What's the advantage of a power vented wh? I see a lot of disadvantages over "standard" ones, like higher cost, more components to fail, less heating via center exhaust, motor and air noise, etc. Also, I thought PVC deteriorated in sunlight so what's the vent above the roof going to do? Bob S.
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Mine doesn't go out through the roof; it goes out the side of the house with a 45 angle and a screen to keep out the bugs. Sticks out about two inches from the wall. Because it's forced venting, you don't need a chimney. It's also much more efficient; more hot water for less propane and money.
Disadvantages - needs electricity to run. Have to power the water heater as well as the well pump in a power failure.
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Advantage? No real advantage. Power vented water heaters don't require a chimney. Lots of new homes don't have brick chimneys for flues. Some don't even have a "B-vent" chimney. So, you either use an electric water heater or a power vented model that vents outside with PVC pipe. They also cost more when you have to replace them versus a standard water heater. They also use electricity for the venter motor and ignition controls versus a standard water heater. PVC can deteoriate over time in the sunlight but its going to take quite some time with schedule 40. I see the heat from a malfunctioning water heater cause more damage to the pvc than anything else. Bubba
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<DIV>Turtle:<BR><BR>I think hot water heaters will be around a long time. I am not in a<BR>hurry to spend&nbsp; $900 for a new water heater and installation.<BR><BR>Maybe a GI bath for a day or two until i can find an honest plumber. <BR><BR>If I need a new one,&nbsp; is the one that HD sells the Whirlpool for $288 is<BR>that a decent WH. I don't want crap either. The price I got from<BR>plumbers to replace of $695 + $150 for installation + tax, I thought was<BR>outrageous. I know prices have risen, but quality in products have gone<BR>down. Isn't that quite high or am I wrong.<BR><BR><BR>Pat<BR></DIV> <DIV>This is Turtle.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I could not say what high was at all for you have different parts of the country with a wide range of pay scales which it is just hard saying what norm is. The $150.00 to install it is in my words pretty&nbsp;cheap price and would say well worth him doing it for that. I live in a low cost of living area and the norm here is $200.00 + Tank and material. Now you buy your tank where you want and you go get it and sit it there and the Plumber here will put it in there. They don't care if you come back with a Yugo or a Roll Royce but it's still $200.00. </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Now to the Whirlpool water heater or others. I have this ideal in my head now that all water heaters are border line trash and no matter what you write on the side of it. I will expect about every 10 to 15 years out of it and go get me another one like I would buying a washing machine and drier. The old ideal of buying a car to last 30 years went out the window with hot water tanks with it. </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>So Buy the cheapest thing that will fit in there and be happy if it last 15 years and cuss it if it don't and just replace. This sound very simple mined but it has come now days that long haul items now are become short haul items and treat them as so for the hot water tank has become a short haul item. </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>TURTLE</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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We manage rental properties. We get an average of 6 to 7 years out of the glass lined gas and electric water heaters. No, the sacrificial rods are never changed. And we have had various brands in these units with prices from 150 to 400 dollars.
In every place that has a hot water boiler we have been converting to stainless indirect water heaters. I am impressed with their lasting time (have 2 of em now around 12 years old). And of course the boiler cycles in the summertime. While its true indirects are around 700 with trim in comparison to 2 or 300 it really seems worthwhile to have them last longer.
We are running a 4 fam with 8 adults on a single 40 gallon indirect. Yes its on a big boiler (Burnham 209) with priority. We can run at least 2 showers constantly.
Then too - who knows what is really in the water in this the Boston area.
I would like to know how long those instant direct vent water heaters will last. Anyone have any guesses??
Oreo
<DIV>Turtle:<BR><BR>I think hot water heaters will be around a long time. I am not in a<BR>hurry to spend&nbsp; $900 for a new water heater and installation.<BR><BR>Maybe a GI bath for a day or two until i can find an honest plumber. <BR><BR>If I need a new one,&nbsp; is the one that HD sells the Whirlpool for $288 is<BR>that a decent WH. I don't want crap either. The price I got from<BR>plumbers to replace of $695 + $150 for installation + tax, I thought was<BR>outrageous. I know prices have risen, but quality in products have gone<BR>down. Isn't that quite high or am I wrong.<BR><BR><BR>Pat<BR></DIV> <DIV>This is Turtle.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I could not say what high was at all for you have different parts of the country with a wide range of pay scales which it is just hard saying what norm is. The $150.00 to install it is in my words pretty&nbsp;cheap price and would say well worth him doing it for that. I live in a low cost of living area and the norm here is $200.00 + Tank and material. Now you buy your tank where you want and you go get it and sit it there and the Plumber here will put it in there. They don't care if you come back with a Yugo or a Roll Royce but it's still $200.00. </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Now to the Whirlpool water heater or others. I have this ideal in my head now that all water heaters are border line trash and no matter what you write on the side of it. I will expect about every 10 to 15 years out of it and go get me another one like I would buying a washing machine and drier. The old ideal of buying a car to last 30 years went out the window with hot water tanks with it. </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>So Buy the cheapest thing that will fit in there and be happy if it last 15 years and cuss it if it don't and just replace. This sound very simple mined but it has come now days that long haul items now are become short haul items and treat them as so for the hot water tank has become a short haul item. </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>TURTLE</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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