Electrical Neutral Connected to Ground

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On 03/11/2015 2:08 PM, Seymore4Head wrote:

That's the point though, there's only the one device here.
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On Wednesday, March 11, 2015 at 2:43:59 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@spamblocked.com wrote:

A dead short will trip the existing 40A or whatever breaker for the stove instantly. It's an overload that exceeds the wiring to the outlet, but not the breaker, ie the range of 15A or 20A to 40A, that would be the fire hazard from the wiring overheating.
If you're lucky. only the MW will be destroyed as smoke pours

There really aren't any electrocution issues. No more so than with the stove that also uses a shared ground and neutral that is connected to it's metal case. And that is still code compliant as long as it was wired before the code changed.
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On 03/11/2015 1:53 PM, trader_4 wrote:

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And, of course, while presuming 14ga/15A outlet, any load above that is in violation of Code, the actual breaker thermal trip level is generally about 5-7.5% _above_ the nominal breaker rating at which point the bimetallic strip opens so the actual load might be as much as 43A or so before the breaker itself saw the overload.
But, mitigating that is that the actual current-carrying capacity of wiring or the outlet is quite a lot greater than that for which it is rated for Code application so there's quite a margin of safety before a real fire danger is present.
I don't have the data at hand on what the temperature rise in a 14ga Cu would be in open air at 43A but it'll be warm...will it be fire-setting hot I don't know for certain.
See the previous comment above as well...it certainly should be fixed but I don't believe it's an imminent hazard in the next 10 minutes.
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On Wednesday, March 11, 2015 at 3:14:01 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:

Copper 14g is 2.5 ohms per 1000 ft, or .0025 per ft. At 40 amps, I2R is 1600 x .0025, or 4 watts per foot. You have two conductors, so double that, 8W. 8W spread out over a foot of wire doesn't sound like a lot of heat to me either. Like you say, warm, but I doubt it would melt romex insulation. There is a lot of margin in the code.

I agree, especially now that he knows not to plug another big load into that same receptacle with the microwave.
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On 03/11/2015 4:34 PM, trader_4 wrote:

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Thanks for the update--I couldn't recall well enough to venture w/o looking it up and didn't want to take the time/effort at the time.
Well, let's see if can do a little more on the temperature rise given the heat load...
Well, shoot! Can't find in a quick search any specifically applicable heat transfer coefficients for romex so it'll have to wait until can find more time...by which time I'll likely have lost interest! :)
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On 03/11/2015 5:13 PM, dpb wrote: ...

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I've lost interest...but, I did find one study that bundled 12(!!!) various-sized cables from 14 to 10ga in a single bundle through a top plate hole as constricted as possible yet get them through it.
They then powered each and every circuit to it's 80% rating by adjusting a bunch of resistance heat loads and watched. It raised the temperature to above the 90C (~200F) rating temperature after a period of several hours from which they concluded this was a bad idea and Code should prevent it! (DOH!)
OBTW, this was on an experimental structure of a west-facing wall in the AZ desert at full summer sun...
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Check out 334.80, It has been in the code for several cycles.
Where more than two NM cables containing two or more current-carrying conductors are installed, without maintaining spacing between the cables, through the same opening in wood framing that is to be fire- or draft-stopped using thermal insulation, caulk, or sealing foam, the allowable ampacity of each conductor shall be adjusted in accordance with Table 310.15(B)(2)(a) and the provisions of 310.15(A)(2), Exception, shall not apply.
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On 03/12/2015 1:09 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I'm aware of it, just reporting the story of an "experiment" as, basically, "jobsite" humor...but, apparently these nitwits weren't.
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 11:53:22 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

Even back when it was legal, there were still some restrictions. It had to originate in the main panel, not a sub, and the grounded conductor was required to be insulated if this was not SE cable. That usually meant they ran 10 or 8 3 wire romex plus ground so the ground wire was still there, just nod connected to the receptacle, that got the red, black and white. Typically they used it to ground the box.
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On 3/11/2015 3:43 PM, snipped-for-privacy@spamblocked.com wrote:

Another moaners hub poster, displaying intelligence.
Yep, aluminum wiring and no problems. Yet. - . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:44:01 +0000, Chuck

I never thought an outlet on the stove was a great idea. Eventually someone will turn the burner on when an electric cord is going over the burner.

I actually live in the next county (I think).

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On 3/11/2015 4:34 PM, micky wrote:

Maybe we shouldn't put burners on the stove top because some dumbass democrat will burn themselves? And maybe limit the oven temp to 120F?
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wrote:

What does this have to do with Democrats? You need full-time therapy.

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