E7014 welding rod on plated steel

[zxcvbob]

I need to weld a 3/4"-10 nut to its washer. I'm gonna run a little bead around one corner (2 sides), and then the opposite corner, and leave the other 2 sides unwelded so it doesn't crack when it cools.

All the nuts and washers I could find were zinc plated, although they are bright and don't look anything like hot galvanized. Can I use a

7014 electrode on plated metal, or do I need to use a 6011? I haven't welded anything in years, so I'd rather not use a 6011 because they are hard to handle and splatter all over the place.

I could braze it with a torch, but this is a good opportunity to play with the arc welder I bought last year at a rummage sale.

Thanks, regards, Bob

[Texan]

The plating on the nuts are most likely cadmium, not zinc, if they are bright. As far as welding on them, you need to grind or burn the plating off before you do the welding. The plating will cause the welding puddle to splatter and get the plating in the weld metal and cause porosity (gas bobbles in the weld area) making the weld weak and crack.

The E-7014 will produces a lot of Iron power flux that will remind on the weld and its hard to tell when you have actually got the two parts welded together. The flux causes the weld puddle to stay hot and liquated longer (by keeping the heat in). It also hard to remove. The 70 prefix means

70,000 tensely strength.

The E-6011 is called a fast-freeze rod. (little if any flux left so the puddle cools real quick) and would be better for you situation because it will blow any impurities (the burnt plating) away from the puddle.

Both rods can be welded using AC or DC current, straight or reverse polarity.

[zxcvbob]

Thanks. I thought the plating might cause trouble. I have a box of E6011, but I'll have to practice on some scrap before I try to weld anything real (from what I remember it's easy to burn thru with 6011.)

I thought I had a box of E6013; the depositation rate is slow enough for

6013 that it might burn away the plating, but I doubt it -- not that it matters cuz I don't have any and it would be silly to buy a pound for such a tiny project.

For someone out of practice what would be the easiest to use with 6011, AC, DCEP, or DCEN? It doesn't matter much what the welds look like because nobody will be able to see them when everything is assembled.

Best regards, Bob

[Texan]

Both rods can be welded using AC or DC current, straight or reverse polarity

When Replying Remove "thepin" From Return Address

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

The best two rods I have ever seen was P-5 stringer rod just for tack welding & the first pass on a butt weld and the 6018 for fill in the welds. All the pipe lines use these rod because of their strength to hold up up pressure.

I don't know about the other rods spoke about.

TURTLE

[Bob K 207]

they're probably electro plated, I use black steel when I need to weld nuts.

If you cannot get black steel jsut drop the plated ones in a little pool acid until they stop fizzing.

welding zinc coated stuff gives off hazardous fumes.

zinc oxide fume and cause metal fume fever.

[Bob K 207]

btw 7014 is great stuff for those of us who are welding challenged :)

[zxcvbob]

[SteveB]

6010 will cut right through the galvanize. There will be so little fumes from a couple of nuts and washers I wouldn't worry about it. A 7014 will have a lot of iron powder, and might give you too large of a puddle or too much filler to weld these things very well. I personally would use a E6010 DCRP, that is stinger positive. Whip the rod to stack the puddles. With the E7014, you can't whip the rod or you will lose the arc. With the E6010, when you have put enough fill metal in one spot, you can whip out and come back for another puddle next to the last one. If you have some 3/32" 6010, that would be best.

IMHO, that is. If it was in my shop, that's how I would do it. 6010 is an amazing rod, but it runs hot, and blows holes easily. It has deep penetration because of its polarity. For lighter things, I like E6011 DCEN, but that wouldn't give you the penetration into the nut that you need. In fact, in my welding book, E6011 isn't even listed as a DCEN rod, only AC and DCEP. DCEN= dc current electrode negative. I have used 3/32" E6011 DCEN to repair .065 wrought iron in the field.

Steve

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

If your welding on Zinc coating or Galvanizing coated and even in the outdoor. Your going to pick up on the vapors and will give you Industrial Neumona . The cure to prevent you from screwing up your lungs. Drink 2 to 4 oz. of milk before starting,. then every 1 to 2 hour of welding drink 2 to 4 oz. of milk to counter react the poisin effect of the fumes. This is not a cure but will slow down any effects of the vapors on your body. The milk has calcium which will attach it'self to the zinc or Galv. vapors material while in your blood stream and it will be taken out by you kindeys. You can use anyother stuff with calcium in it.

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[Mikey S.]

I understand your concern but isn't this getting carried away? I believe the guy is welding ONE nut to ONE washer and doing it outside. Even if he screws it up and has to weld TWO..I don't think he will get enough zinc to matter. Unless the nut is the prop nut for a tanker or battleship :-)

FWIW..Ive welded a few small galvanized objects with no ill effects noted.

[TURTLE]

Mikey , This may seem to you as a getting carried away here but if this fellow weld a nut with no effect today and then next week says well i think I'm going to build me a new trailor for my truck and will be using the Galv. metal. If he did not get told about the effects and what to do. he will walk off into a real problem down the road. The discussion here is really to just know about the problems that can come up down the road with welding the Galv. Metal and getting Industrial Neumonia. I have a friend years back that spent 3 days in the hospital building 3 trailors for his company to haul shingles off with and would not have been sent to the hospital if he just had 3 - 6 oz. cartons of milk. A $1.50 worth of milk would have stopped a $3,000.00 doctor and hospital bill and also a week off work to boot. Everytime he welds Galv. metal from now on, he has a carton of milk handy.

Everything you say on the Newsgroups can effect someone down the road somewhere's.

TURTLE

[zxcvbob]

The milk thing is interesting; thanks. I soaked the nut and washer in some phosphoric acid and etched all the zinc off so I can use a 7014 or

6013 electrode instead of 6011, so it's a moot point -- this time. If I ever have to weld more than a piddly little amount of galvanized steel, I'll drink a bunch of milk *and* see if I can find a respirator.

Bob

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

Both the Respirator or the milk works fine. A couple of ounces of milk will work wonders.

TURTLE

[Dave]

You spelled 'neumonia' wrong. I think the milk advice is bizarre medical info, from laypeople who should know better. As to the welding rod, 6011 works fine for small jobs like this, and I wouldn't worry about the miniscule amount of ionized heavy metal. Professional welders do this all the time, and 'industrial neumonia' is surprisingly uncommon.

Dave

[SteveB]

I'll second that opinion. Since milk goes down the digestive tract through the esophagus, and air goes into the lungs through the trachea, one would have to snort a lot of milk to get it in the right tube. Welding projects that would call for the welding of ALREADY galvanized metal would be some shade tree poor boy operation that I wouldn't have anything to do with. Can you imagine how an inspector would set up parameters for inspection? It would be impossible, not to mention a red flag for any safety man that is conscious.

And it isn't called "industrial neumonia", but metal fume fever, cadmium pneumonitis, polymer fume fever, fluorocarbon pyrolysis-related syndrome, and many other names.

And I would use 6010 or 6011 to bite right through the little bit of galvanize on a nut and washer. I have wirefed a lot of galvanized nuts and washers with no ill effects that I know of. Other people tell me they have noticed a change in me, but I think they're full of it.

Steve

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle

Yea thank you for telling me how to spell Newmonia the right way.

Well about the Milk with welding of Galv. metal. Well I will send a e-mail and call the Exxon Co. U.S.A. Refinery in Bayton, Texas and the Offshore Division in the Gulf of Mexico to straighten them out for requiring welders and fitters to drink the milk or wear carbon type filter mask when welding the Galv. Metal.

Well about Professional welders welding galv. metal all the timer and not having Newmonia. The reason you don't see it is all the big company that have employees who do this drink milk or wear carbon filer mask. The only time you see Industrial Newmonia is when shade tree and small company do jobs and don't care about their workers and you will see it pop up.

TURTLE

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

Thank You Dr. Steve for the fine artical on Industrial Newmonia. As you say the Metal fumes goes into your lungs and milk goes into you digestive system. The Galv. metal does not start to hurt you till the vapor metal get in your blood stream. It fills up you red blood cell cups and causes you to not carry oxygen from the lungs and then the lungs start filling up with fluid or water vapor left in the lungs that was not carried away like it should have. Then you drown or have what you call Industrial Newmonia. The Calcium in the milk will attach it'self to the Galv. metal and be dumped out of the body. Welders are hard headed about wearing Carbon type mask and at this time they will be given milk if your not going to do what your suppose to do.

Now Welding Already Galv. Metal pipe being only done by Shade Tree welders. well Let me let you in on a little secret here. Exxon Co. U.S.A / South Offshore Division has about 3/4 of all the small pipes for water and fuel supply lines are Galv. coated because it is the only thing that will really hold up to the Salt water and Rust on low pressure lines. They have demet coating for any of the larger lines that are subjected to high pressure and Galv. lines can't be used for the rust will eat out under the Galv. coating and not show up to a visiual inspection. Galv. pipe can only be used on pressure under 200 psi. Now a lot of it is screw pipe but better than half is socket welded and use Galv. pipe and fittings.

You had said that you had been acting a little strange lately while welding some galv. metal. Hey it has a long term effect on you and also it will make all your kids and grand kids all be born nake. Watch out here to prevent this.

TURTLE

[SteveB]

I always regard highly the advice and posts of a Fellow International Society of Oilfield Trash member.

I was once kicked off a Reading and Bates platform for not putting guys into an unsafe situation. I found out from an attormey that OSHA rules do not apply in international waters. And if the platform is attatched to the seafloor, it doesn't come under the Jones Act. And there are exclusions to the Longshoreman and Harbor Workers Act. So, offshore companies have lots of leeway in what they can and can't do.

But to quote the common phrase offshore, "Just get it!" meaning get it done no matter what it takes or how you have to do it, and I don't want to know.

Steve

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

I worked offshore about 200 miles in international waters and OSHA did inspect the plateforms for what you may thinks as unsafe conditions but in reality they are looking for for any condition that may cause the oil to be dumped into the Gulf of Mexico. I worked offshore for Exxon Co. U.S.A. for 10 years as a operator and not one time was I ask anything at all about a unsafe condition for people or employees on the plate at all. All of the conversation that i had with OSHA was about what condition would cause oil to be dumped into the Gulf and never a word about a unsafe condition for Peoples or employees. There was a plateform named West Delta-Block 30 Plateform [ nick named "" Dirty-30 "" ] that just about burnt up and 6 employees was killed. OSHA came out for about 30 minutes and looked at nothing but the well heads and the cause of the oil that was dumped into the Gulf. I later ead their report about the oil in the Gulf but there was no words of anykind about the 6 employees that was burnt up. As far as they were concerned the employees were just SS# numbers that had to be replaced and spoke not a word about their passing or about them at all.

USGS was the same way.

TURTLE